Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

For discussion of fitting and shaping stems, doing inlays, and any other stem-related topic.
JJL
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Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by JJL »

Hello everyone. I'm hoping I can get some feedback on this. I am currently sourcing materials, and I am not sure what to make of acrylic rod being promoted as “Italian”. I know that Italian pipemakers like to use acrylic for the stems, but is there something special about acrylic rod made in Italy, compared to all the other rod out there??? Aside from some online pipemaking retailers promoting their rod as “Italian”, the other day, I even saw a finished pipe being sold as: “stem material: Italian acrylic”.

My understanding is that making cast Acrylic/Lucite rod is pretty much a straight-forward process, compared to making vulcanite/ebonite rod. So, is there really something special about how the Italians do it, or should I just get some cast acrylic rod, from the many locations I have sourced here in my own area of Ontario, Canada???

Thank You.
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Sasquatch
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Re: Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by Sasquatch »

There are lots of little variations in hardness and quality. It's not super expensive stuff, so if you can get cast rod locally, great, give it a shot. Find out if they are vendors or manufacturers, and see what they have, and whether it's good enough for pipes. The big deal with pipe stuff is that the finished product is examined 8 inches from someone's face, so any imperfections are just glaring. You can't have a bubble, a fissure, a color change, nothing.

I'm just going to put a quick stick in your spokes here though maybe. I've seen you post about briar, and customs, and profit, and you are "sourcing" acrylic, and that's all cool - do your homework on stuff. But I haven't seen you make a sellable pipe, and all this other shit, getting a brand, and stamps, and hats and pins and scarves and the shit you see on instagram, forget it. Make a pipe from briar, learn to cut a nice stem. Everything else, everything else will fall into place if you do that.

So I don't mean to rain on your parade, the research and scouting work you are doing is worthwhile. But you can have the best briar and the best rod, and no one will give a shit if your pipes aren't snappy good. THAT should be your priority for awhile.

I remember years and years ago, hell I think it's on this board somewhere, but a guy showed up with a big armful of pipes, and a website, and all kinds of stuff. And he was having trouble selling the pipes, and didn't feel his photography was good. So there was a big long thread about lighting and ISO numbers and F stops and all kinds of stuff, and it basically ended when an elite-level pipe maker stepped in and said "Dude, just make better pipes, and they'll sell. That's the secret here, it's not fucking lighting."

In your shoes, what I would do is order a box of various stuff from Vermont Freehand. Steve's done all the research, has good product, and it's all tried and true. During your journeys, you may find a better acrylic, you may find a better epoxy, you may find a better tripoli bar, you may wind up ordering briar right from Chacom, who knows. But start your journey with less fuss, is my advice.

Now maybe I'm wrong here, or have missed your posts here or elsewhere, in which case, ignore all this. :thumbsup:
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!
LatakiaLover
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Re: Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by LatakiaLover »

IAWS
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JJL
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Re: Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by JJL »

Sasquatch wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 5:11 pm There are lots of little variations in hardness and quality. It's not super expensive stuff, so if you can get cast rod locally, great, give it a shot. Find out if they are vendors or manufacturers, and see what they have, and whether it's good enough for pipes. The big deal with pipe stuff is that the finished product is examined 8 inches from someone's face, so any imperfections are just glaring. You can't have a bubble, a fissure, a color change, nothing....
Hi Sasquatch,

Thanks for your input, and for taking the time to write lengthy responses to my questions. So far, I have made only one pipe, from a kit I purchased online. Here is a picture of it that I took not long ago, and I posted this photo on Facebook, recently. You might have seen this photo on Facebook, as you have accepted my “friend request” on there.

Image

I think this angle of the photo makes my pipe look the best it can, but I took a bunch of other photos of the pipe that clearly shows many problems with it. It's my first pipe, so I'm not going to beat myself up over its problems. And it actually smokes pretty well, and smokes better than most of my store-bought pipes.

Anyway, I already have all the materials I need to make about five pipes. I purchased some of it from Steve, and also from other online pipemaking retailers. I'll probably start my second pipe, sometime next week. But for sure, I am looking around to see what is out there, and in particular, what I can get locally.

While looking for local acrylic cast rod, I was surprised that several of the websites also mentioned that they sell Delrin. Prior to this finding, I thought that Delrin was a very obscure hard to get product, but it looks like it's not, actually. So after I use up the Delrin I already purchased online, then I guess I'll be getting the Delrin locally, at the same places I would get the acrylic cast rod.
JJL
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Re: Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by JJL »

This place is Brain Death.
Just shut it down. Why coax people to post on here?

Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod....what's good????

Shut it down. Maybe leave it up as an closed archive.

This lack of participation is insulting to members in general. Why allow people to make accounts if it's going to be like this??? Shut it down.
LatakiaLover
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Re: Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by LatakiaLover »

JJL wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 1:42 am This place is Brain Death.
Just shut it down. Why coax people to post on here?

Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod....what's good????

Shut it down. Maybe leave it up as an closed archive.

This lack of participation is insulting to members in general. Why allow people to make accounts if it's going to be like this??? Shut it down.
:roll:

Sas gave you a comprehensive, 100% correct answer to your question.

That it wasn't what you wanted to hear (or something?) isn't his fault, or the fault of any other established, experienced pipe maker who monitors this site (there are many).

Chill, dude.
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
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Sasquatch
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Re: Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by Sasquatch »

JJL, you gotta go read this one. It is truth. Capital T Truth.

https://www.pipemakersforum.com/forum/v ... =15&t=3557


Buy whatever you like, make whatever you like. Nobody's stopping you.

But don't expect us to waste our time wading through your fucking odyssey as you buy all kinds of stuff and find out it's crap or not. You live near someone who has cast acrylic? Fucking great. I don't. So I order rods I know work, from vendors I trust. Too simple of an equation?

I'll give you an ultra secret tip: best stem making material out there is called "Ultem". Check it out.
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!
JJL
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Re: Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by JJL »

LatakiaLover wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 2:10 am
JJL wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 1:42 am This place is Brain Death.
Just shut it down. Why coax people to post on here?

Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod....what's good????

Shut it down. Maybe leave it up as an closed archive.

This lack of participation is insulting to members in general. Why allow people to make accounts if it's going to be like this??? Shut it down.
:roll:

Sas gave you a comprehensive, 100% correct answer to your question.

That it wasn't what you wanted to hear (or something?) isn't his fault, or the fault of any other established, experienced pipe maker who monitors this site (there are many).

Chill, dude.
Hi LatakiaLover,

Actually, I disagree with your statement, but that's OK. The bigger issue is that I made this account in Janurary, and I have since been waiting patiently for proper signs of life. When people say this place is slow, there is no joking about it. Good thing it is free to join, though.

Have you seen my thread about Baldo Baldi passing away, earlier this year? The thread only got one response......on a pipemaking forum!!! DAMMMNN. Not good enough, gentlemen.

Blaming Facebook for this lack of activity on message boards in general is also not good enough. I noticed the Facebook version of this place is more active, but the transient disposable nature of Facebook contributions should make message boards a preferred way to interact.

But since, it's not happening here, I guess I will have to work out whatever issues I have on my own.

No hard feelings towards anyone on here.
JJL
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:44 am

Re: Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by JJL »

Sasquatch wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:44 pm JJL, you gotta go read this one. It is truth. Capital T Truth.

https://www.pipemakersforum.com/forum/v ... =15&t=3557


Buy whatever you like, make whatever you like. Nobody's stopping you.

But don't expect us to waste our time wading through your fucking odyssey as you buy all kinds of stuff and find out it's crap or not. You live near someone who has cast acrylic? Fucking great. I don't. So I order rods I know work, from vendors I trust. Too simple of an equation?

I'll give you an ultra secret tip: best stem making material out there is called "Ultem". Check it out.
Hi Sasquatch,

I actually used to interact with Todd Johnson in this very place, around 2009 or so, when I had a different account on here. And, I remember you from that time, and I'm pretty sure you were then new to the pipemaking thing. At the time, I was not properly set up to do any actual pipemaking, but instead, all I could really manage was “book learning”.

Anyway, I have noticed over time, that Todd Johnson has developed a reputation for being a total douchebag. But what I remember from when I used to post on here around 2009, is that Todd Johnson was mostly a very friendly, generous person, and I don't think that those irritating writings that he would sometimes put together should be used to pass a negative judgment upon him.

I guess you like those kinds of writings he would make, but I personally did not. I have also come across some terrible writing, from when he started to get his Briar Works brand going. Nobody is perfect, though.
LatakiaLover
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Re: Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by LatakiaLover »

Frank, is that you? :shock:

It not, you certainly could be. :lol: :lol: :lol:

As in, so, you're NOT really leaving because you are insulted or disgusted, and actually DON'T want the board shut down...?

Thought so.

Because your actual hobby isn't pipemaking, or knifemaking, or pen making, or anything of the sort on the numerous semi-pro boards you doubtless haunt. It's throwing firebombs and getting off on the disruption.

The formula is simple: demand clarification and specificity about some generalized thing, some Global Warming-style issue or topic that everyone has an opinion about, no two agree upon, and above all is unresolvable, then excoriate the demandees when they don't jump and/or satisfy you. Then, after a day of "cooling off" de facto apologize, hang around a bit longer, select another target topic, and do it again.

Rinse and repeat.

Been there and seen this shit countless times.

You REALLY need to get a life, dude.
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
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Sasquatch
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Re: Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by Sasquatch »

Dude, you are barking up the wrong fucking tree.

I posted the link I posted because it's great. It's true. And it's you. You don't think it's you, but it is. You can't just buy the same briar and rod everyone else does, you want an angle. Okay. Have it. But don't expect anyone to care about it. Is your lucite free range lucite? I have free range organic lucite. Oh yeah.

There's a reason TJ and a bunch of other big time pipemakers don't post here anymore. It's because it's a huge waste of their time, and at this point, I'm feeling the same way. Yeah, I got started in 08 into 09, took about 5 years to figure shit out and make a half decent pipe. And in the beginning, fuck yeah, I was gonna be the next Bo Nordh. Except I don't have any talent in that regard, that's sorta the thing I reckoned without. So I went back and learned how to make a billiard, and I've been doing that ever since. And I've tried to pay back the community, offer advice to new guys, offer feedback, philosophy, criticism, with what I know now. Same as I got, back then, from Rad and TJ and Bruce and Kurt and a bunch of other guys. I feel like that debt is now paid, and when this gets not fun I am able to stop.
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!
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Sasquatch
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Re: Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by Sasquatch »

I miss that great big burger Chi-Chi's used to have, fuck that thing was huge.
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LatakiaLover
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Re: Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by LatakiaLover »

Image
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
JJL
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Re: Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by JJL »

LatakiaLover wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:02 pm Frank, is that you? :shock:

It not, you certainly could be. :lol: :lol: :lol:

As in, so, you're NOT really leaving because you are insulted or disgusted, and actually DON'T want the board shut down...?

Thought so.....
Hi LatakiaLover

Oh trust me... I do not plan to be posting here much longer. Coming to this place is like watching paint dry, and it has been approximately 4 months since I created this account. I can only take so much.

I knew something was up with this place when I posted my Baldo Baldi died thread. How is it possible that only one member thought to contribute to that thread? It is not really up to me to come up with an explanation, and at the time, I thought to myself... “What the hell is wrong with these guys???”.

And to think that even you, LatakiaLover, who has actually spent time restoring Baldo Baldi's pipes....even you, did not bother to post in that thread.

SHAME!!!! Shame on YOU, LatakiaLover!
JJL
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Re: Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by JJL »

Sasquatch wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:12 pm Dude, you are barking up the wrong fucking tree.

I posted the link I posted because it's great. It's true. And it's you. You don't think it's you, but it is. You can't just buy the same briar and rod everyone else does, you want an angle. Okay. Have it. But don't expect anyone to care about it. Is your lucite free range lucite? I have free range organic lucite. Oh yeah.
Hi Sasquatch,

No, that's not me. I'm just looking for basic cast acrylic rod in black. In actuality, I'm thinking the “Made In Italy” acrylic rod, that is being sold through pipemaking retailers may be part of the “angle”/gimmick that you are suggesting. I just can't prove it yet. I actually have a bit of this mysterious Italian acrylic rod that I will eventually be able to compare with local rod, but it is still too early for me to attempt making handcut stems, at this stage.

Do you get your Fiebing's dyes from Steve Norse, too??? The other day, I purchased some from sewingsupplydepot.com, which is based out of Toronto. Very prompt delivery, with better shipping charges than I was expecting. The only difference I noticed is that all the caps were the child-proof white medicine bottle types, instead of the black caps, which are the ones I got from Steve.

But next time I want Fiebing's dyes, I'm going to try a local place called Tandy Leather, which is just a 30 minute drive from where I live in Ontario. I bet I will just need to give them a call, and put in an order, and then go pick it up.... no shipping and handling costs!!! Tandy Leather is a franchise, and I just did a quick search for you, and there are 2 locations in Alberta (Edmonton, Calgary).

But hey, if you'd rather give your money to Steve because you guys are buddies, then go ahead.
caskwith
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Re: Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by caskwith »

I don't recall seeing the thread here but I did see it mentioned on facebook that Baldo Baldi had died, I don't remember seeing much of a response there.

This is primarily an English speak forum, I doubt many here would have had much/any interaction with Baldi or possibly even known the name? I met him once at a pipe show, he was incredibly rude to me which as a young and aspiring pipe maker at the time I found very upsetting. Some of the other more friendly pipemakers there told me to ignore it, he was rude to anyone that wasn't buying a pipe from him and none of the pipemakers there seemed to like him, only the collectors and dealers seemed to speak with him. Could be a factor? Dunno.
LatakiaLover
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Re: Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by LatakiaLover »

FWIW regarding Baldi, I never met the man, had never heard anything positive about him from those who had, and concluded long ago that his work was nothing special except for the excellent wood he frequently managed to score. Which in itself made his poor stem work unexcusable--in effect wasted the wood---never mind that throwaway, afterthought stems don't belong on four figure pipes as a categorical thing.

Harsh? I'm a technical guy, and just call stuff the way it is. Always have, and always will. And execution is what this forum is all about.
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Sasquatch
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Re: Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by Sasquatch »

So, I went and did something here, I looked through my lists on facebook, to see if I could find you, Josh. And I have done, and what this allows, what this helps with, is it personalized things - it makes it so it's not just usernames and a keyboard. It's people. You obviously know who I am too, so that's cool, although basically all the personal info I have on facebook is garbage (to the extent that there's a picture of Clark Layton tagged as me and I've left it, because that's pretty funny). It's easy for me to type out vitriol to some faceless stranger. And I don't want to, I actually have been trying very hard this year to engage the "person" side in these kinds of interactions.

I've explained to you why pipemakers aren't more interested in doing what you are doing, why we are, as a group, a little complacent about sourcing rods and that kind of thing (excepting those guys like Chris Kelly who are pouring their own, who are really rod-nerds and self-sufficient in that way). I don't care if rod is Italian or Vietnamese, I only care if it's any good. And I don't care to waste my time testing each one - I've found a pretty steady supply or two, and the stuff is good. And the price just fine. Same with Feibing's - I guess I could find it a buck cheaper somehow, somewhere, but what's the point, wasting 3 hours to save 5 cents a pipe is... not good value. For me. I know a guy who drives 45 minutes to save 2 bucks on a box of framing nails. That's goofy. Costs more in gas let alone the time.

You are going to learn that there's only X number of places in the whole world that make quality acrylic sheet/rod. And that of all the people selling it "locally", none of them are MAKING it. It's all the same stuff from the same mills (or it's not, in which case you can throw it out). This journey is important to you, it personalizes things for you and I can't stop that being important to you, nor would I.

But.

The fact that it's not important to the group here, as a whole, is not a reflection of some lack of judgment on our part.
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LatakiaLover
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Re: Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by LatakiaLover »

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LatakiaLover
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Re: Italian acrylic rod vs other acrylic rod

Post by LatakiaLover »

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UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
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