Length of a tenon?

For discussion of fitting and shaping stems, doing inlays, and any other stem-related topic.
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jchamb
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Length of a tenon?

Post by jchamb »

Just playing around here with another pipe, but I'm thinking of making a short shank extension from briar - just for the experience if nothing else.

Anyway I'd like to take a small piece of briar left over from shaping a pipe and turn a tenon on one end to insert into the mortise on a pipe I'm making - sorta a shank extension made of briar as I don't have any different woods to use.

I might also saw a small "disk" from a stem I ruined and use it as an inlay on the tenon (between the two pieces of briar). As I have a Pimo tool, I can't make the tenon very long. I'm guessing the vulcanite trim ring would be about 1/8" thick. I figure if I make the tenon 5/8" long, after installing the ring I'll have 1/2" left to glue to the stummel.

I've never thought much about it, but how long do you make your tenons?

john - just thinking out loud...
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marks
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Post by marks »

Around 5/8 inch. Don't know if that is the right length, or even if there is a right length, but it looks ok to me when cut the delrin.
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whitebar
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Post by whitebar »

John,

I make my tennons a little long and then file them down to fit flush in the bottom of the mortise. I just measured a couple and one was 1/2 inch long and the other was 5/8. This has me thinking that maybe I should standardize the length on all my pipes. It would be easy if I would just put a permanent mark on the bit I use for drilling the mortise. I'll give that some thought and I'll be watching to see what others do.
Stephen

Carving Pipes in the Oldest Town in Texas.
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KurtHuhn
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Post by KurtHuhn »

All my tenons are the same length, just under 1/2". The mortis is drilled to the same length every time with a Fuller counterbore on a 5/16" bit. The the tenon is cut a little longer with my Pimo tool, and then I finesse and sand it so that it bottoms out in the mortis.

I don't know that there's a standard for that, but 1/2" seems right to me.
Kurt Huhn
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artisan@k-huhn.com
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jchamb
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Post by jchamb »

Thanks for all the great info. I have gone ahead and tried putting this thing together to see what happens. The pipe will probably look a bit funny (a bent brandy with a 2" stem extension?), but it was an interesting experiment! The epoxy has cured now, so I've gotta move on to the sanding stage.

BTW - what made me think of doing this was a question about long churchwarden stems on the Yahoo group that I frequent. The only churchwarden stem I've seen is 8" (from Pimo and others), and someone was wondering how to make a 10" stem. Why not add a shank extension?

This place is a wealth of knowledge, and has given me the courage to try something totally new. Aside from these pipes, my woodworking skills are totally non-existant - i couldn't make a stick!

john
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Nick
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Post by Nick »

Hehehee

I just made my kids a lemonade stand/pupet theater the other night. Too fun.
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ArtGuy
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Post by ArtGuy »

My tenons are all a little long I think. Not much longer that what you guys are thinking but 5/8" sounds like a good length. On the FatBoy I purposely made the tenon long to shave weight without having to take it from the outside of the pipe.
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whitebar
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Post by whitebar »

I just checked the tenon length on several of my pipes to see what was being done. Here is what I found ordered from the shortest to the longest.

5 Castellos: all were 7/16"
5 Dunhills: all were 1/2"
2 Radices: 1/2"
2 Ser Jacopos: 1/2"
1 Balleby: 1/2"
1 Heeschen: 9/16"
1 Kent: 9/16"
1 Roush: 9/16"
1 Butera: 9/16"
2 Hedegaards: 11/16"

In my opinion, the Hedegaards look too long after seeing all the others.
Stephen

Carving Pipes in the Oldest Town in Texas.
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Nick
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Post by Nick »

WOW! You have some nice pipes Stephan. A Butera! Too cool!
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whitebar
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Post by whitebar »

Thanks Nick, I met Mike Butera in Houston a few years ago and after that meeting I just had to have one of his pipes so when I found one available, I jumped on it. It cost too much but there is something about smoking a pipe when you know the carver that just seems to add to the enjoyment of the pipe!
Stephen

Carving Pipes in the Oldest Town in Texas.
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whitebar
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Post by whitebar »

Random,

Email sent.
Stephen

Carving Pipes in the Oldest Town in Texas.
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jchamb
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Post by jchamb »

Why add a shank extension? I've been putting brass rings in the stems of my pipes. That's a matter of one additional mortise/tenon joint between the two pieces of stem that wrap the ring. A guy could make a 24" stem that would come apart into four sections by using the same technique.

Of course I'm not sure what he'd do with it once he'd made it, is there a hot market for Churchwardens these days?
I guess the guy who posted the question was a Lord of the Rings fan and wanted to make a really long churchwarden. I made one just because I didn't own any churchwarden pipes.

The reason I added the shank extension was just "because"... or, just to see if I could do it. It's been a fun experiment, I'm just trying things that I've read about here on this forum.

I thought also about making a brass ring from a brass washer or brass tube from the hardware store, but would have a real problem turning it down without a lathe. So, I just used a small piece of briar left over from cutting out a pipe and a "ring" cut from a stem I ruined playing with my Pimo tool. Like I said, interesting experiment!

I have some deer antlers, and was thinking about that for trim inlay, but thought I'd try scrap briar first (doesn't smell nearly as bad when you sand it!)

john
experimenting away....
[/quote]
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Tyler
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Post by Tyler »

While aesthetics do play a role in determine a tenon length, I am of the opinion that this is more an issue of function. I do not use a standard tenon length because I think it needs to vary depending upon the pipe. One factor is the diameter of the tenon. This brings in the question of appropriate diameter, and I think it is an issue of function as well.

The main "issue" when thinking through the diameter and length of a tenon is where in the mortise floor the draught hole will be. (Let me disclaim that: There are two issues more important, enough surface area for a good friction fit of the the mortise and tenon, and enough strength so the tenon doesn't easily break...I am assuming these as a minimum standard.) The location of the draught hole on the floor of the mortise is an issue only in bent pipes of course, because the draught hole should be dead center on the mortise floor for straights. On a bent though, it is always a good move to try and get the draught hole as close to dead center on the mortise floor as possible. The steeper the bend in the pipe, the more difficult this is to accomplish. Increasing the diameter of the mortise and decreasing the depth of it allows for more bend with the draught hole still dead center. Of course, shank diameter effects what is an acceptible mortise diameter because there need be enough wood (or tenon material) for a suitably strong junction.

I could go on, but I think I have said enough that one can think through the other aspects of the decision of tenon length and diameters. For straight pipes (and a decent number of slightly bent pipes) 1/2-ish" long and 5/16" in diameter is very normal and certainly quite acceptable. However, for bents I think one should try to minimize the smearing of the draught hole in order to pass a pipe cleaner, and mortise variations are the trick to this.

Tyler
Last edited by Tyler on Sat May 29, 2004 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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