would love to have anyone expalin how they use delrin for tenons. where is the best place to get them. i know that tim west sells them. if i make a 5/16 tenon will a 5/16 delrin work given the nature of briar. or do you use a threaded drill for the delrin. what is the total procdure for making delrin tenons. this seems to me the way to go.
thanks
jim
delrin for tenons
Re: delrin for tenons
I buy it from MSC Industrial supply in rods of varying OD sizes for different size tenons. It's simple, just chop off pieces and drill the airhole through them, then drill your mortise to the same size. The delrin tenon is epoxied into the stem. It's best to turn some grooves in the delrin and rough the surface to help the epoxy grip, and hold it in place for life even if the epoxy hold on the delrin itself breaks loose.jbacon wrote:would love to have anyone expalin how they use delrin for tenons. where is the best place to get them. i know that tim west sells them. if i make a 5/16 tenon will a 5/16 delrin work given the nature of briar. or do you use a threaded drill for the delrin. what is the total procdure for making delrin tenons. this seems to me the way to go.
thanks
jim
Happy Smoking,
Trever Talbert
www.talbertpipes.com
My Pipe Blog:
https://talbertpipes.com/category/pipeblog/
My Lizards & Pipes Web Comic:
https://talbertpipes.com/category/lizards/
Trever Talbert
www.talbertpipes.com
My Pipe Blog:
https://talbertpipes.com/category/pipeblog/
My Lizards & Pipes Web Comic:
https://talbertpipes.com/category/lizards/
thanks trevor and marks
the real question i have is given the nature of briar if i drill a 5/16 mortise
with a 2-flute end mill will a 5/16 dia delrin fit good. or would you use a 3/8 and sand to fit for a perfect tenon/mortise juction. are you using a certain epoxy or just the reg 5-min epoxy you can find anywhere. i know there is a other thread on epoxy in these forum, but will risk the question
anyway.
btw
i want to thank everyone for being more specific the reason being is that
i can look up material in catalogs, but i also started using a center cut end mill for the mortise- after reading that everyone was having good results. the problem that happen to me was i asked at the store where i purchase my drill bits whick would be better a 4-flute or a 2-flute. well i ended up w/ a 4 flute end mill- but found out that a 2-flute high-hecial
end mill would better severe my purposes. for anyone that wants to know
a accupro 2-flute high-hexial end mill is whatt i now use and it is much better than the 4-flute end mill.
best
jim
the real question i have is given the nature of briar if i drill a 5/16 mortise
with a 2-flute end mill will a 5/16 dia delrin fit good. or would you use a 3/8 and sand to fit for a perfect tenon/mortise juction. are you using a certain epoxy or just the reg 5-min epoxy you can find anywhere. i know there is a other thread on epoxy in these forum, but will risk the question
anyway.
btw
i want to thank everyone for being more specific the reason being is that
i can look up material in catalogs, but i also started using a center cut end mill for the mortise- after reading that everyone was having good results. the problem that happen to me was i asked at the store where i purchase my drill bits whick would be better a 4-flute or a 2-flute. well i ended up w/ a 4 flute end mill- but found out that a 2-flute high-hecial
end mill would better severe my purposes. for anyone that wants to know
a accupro 2-flute high-hexial end mill is whatt i now use and it is much better than the 4-flute end mill.
best
jim
Jim, I am constantly experimenting and trying new things, and I learn something new with each new pipe I make. If you count the number of pipes I have made, that makes 11 things I have learned. 
That said, the last pipe I drilled, I drilled slightly smaller than 5/16 with a drill bit, the finished off using a 5/16 reamer chucked into the drill press, unhooked the belt, then manually turned the reamer and fed into the mortise. Although the other times I used the drill press on the lowest speed setting, turning the reamer manually gave me the nicest fit I have had yet for a mortise and tenon. Jim Cooke gave me the reamer idea, and I am very pleased with the results.
To be sure that what you described will work prior to drilling a block of briar, take a scrap piece of briar, and drill and insert a piece of 5/16 delrin. If you do not have a scrap piece of briar, some other type of wood will work to check the fit.
I use Devcon 2 ton epoxy with great results. I tried using another brand, and did not like the results (the epoxy did not seem to dry quite right and ended up being sort of like chewing gum that had been left out for a few hours).
Good luck
That said, the last pipe I drilled, I drilled slightly smaller than 5/16 with a drill bit, the finished off using a 5/16 reamer chucked into the drill press, unhooked the belt, then manually turned the reamer and fed into the mortise. Although the other times I used the drill press on the lowest speed setting, turning the reamer manually gave me the nicest fit I have had yet for a mortise and tenon. Jim Cooke gave me the reamer idea, and I am very pleased with the results.
To be sure that what you described will work prior to drilling a block of briar, take a scrap piece of briar, and drill and insert a piece of 5/16 delrin. If you do not have a scrap piece of briar, some other type of wood will work to check the fit.
I use Devcon 2 ton epoxy with great results. I tried using another brand, and did not like the results (the epoxy did not seem to dry quite right and ended up being sort of like chewing gum that had been left out for a few hours).
Good luck
beautiful thanks marks
a couple more questions if you don t mind i noticed there are several types of reamers what kind do you use and for the delrin rod do you purchase it from msc as well.
and to anyone
do you install the delrin rod and then drill the draught hole to center things up or do you drill the draught hole and then install the delrin.
do you still flute out the delrin where you insert in into the mortise/ and if not do you still countersink or chamber the mortise still or just leave it flat
and any thing else anyone can add w/ be very helpful to begginners or anyone else reading this forumn. i know it all sounds like little things but these little things actually add up to bigger things. i think todd johnson said you have to network and go to pipe shows- but that not is always possible- that is why i love this forum so much- it is networking.
thanks very much marks for sharing so much(and everyone else)
jim
a couple more questions if you don t mind i noticed there are several types of reamers what kind do you use and for the delrin rod do you purchase it from msc as well.
and to anyone
do you install the delrin rod and then drill the draught hole to center things up or do you drill the draught hole and then install the delrin.
do you still flute out the delrin where you insert in into the mortise/ and if not do you still countersink or chamber the mortise still or just leave it flat
and any thing else anyone can add w/ be very helpful to begginners or anyone else reading this forumn. i know it all sounds like little things but these little things actually add up to bigger things. i think todd johnson said you have to network and go to pipe shows- but that not is always possible- that is why i love this forum so much- it is networking.
thanks very much marks for sharing so much(and everyone else)
jim
Unfortunately there is nothing to say but, "Try and see", because everyone's results can vary so much. I drill a 5/16" hole with a normal drill bit and, after one buff on the brown compound wheel, a 5/16" tenon will slide in perfectly. But, it will always vary from person to person and place to place. You'll drill different-sized holes depending on what speed you drill, how much play there is in your lathe, and on and on. There's really nothing to do but pick a junk block and drill some test holes with different bits at different speeds, and see what works best for you.jbacon wrote:thanks trevor and marks
the real question i have is given the nature of briar if i drill a 5/16 mortise
with a 2-flute end mill will a 5/16 dia delrin fit good. or would you use a 3/8 and sand to fit for a perfect tenon/mortise juction. are you using a certain epoxy or just the reg 5-min epoxy you can find anywhere. i know there is a other thread on epoxy in these forum, but will risk the question
anyway.
Happy Smoking,
Trever Talbert
www.talbertpipes.com
My Pipe Blog:
https://talbertpipes.com/category/pipeblog/
My Lizards & Pipes Web Comic:
https://talbertpipes.com/category/lizards/
Trever Talbert
www.talbertpipes.com
My Pipe Blog:
https://talbertpipes.com/category/pipeblog/
My Lizards & Pipes Web Comic:
https://talbertpipes.com/category/lizards/
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KurtHuhn
- Site Admin
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- Location: United States/Rhode Island
I've started useing these on all hand-cut stems, and I've found that I have best results if I drill the vulcanite rod on the lathe, epoxy the un-drilled delrin in the vulcanite, let it dry, then drill the airway.jbacon wrote:do you install the delrin rod and then drill the draught hole to center things up or do you drill the draught hole and then install the delrin.
This is easiest for me, given the tools I use.
I always countersink the mortis end. It just something I do.do you still flute out the delrin where you insert in into the mortise/ and if not do you still countersink or chamber the mortise still or just leave it flat
Jim, I also get my delrin from MSC. Delrin is actually dupont's name for the product. You will find it called Acetal in the MSC catalogue (generic name).
As far as reamers, I forgot what brand I got, but I got it from MSC as well. It has a lot of flutes on it, and it had a long shank that I cut to shorten up the reamer and get less run out from the drill press. It cost around 13 to 15 dollars I think. It also has a flat bottom.
So far I have been drilling the rod to size, then drilling a smaller diameter hole in the delrin so the epoxy has somewhere to run. Then after it dries, I drill to full diameter and get rid of the extra epoxy.
On the end of the delrin I glue into the stem, I set up the cutter on my lathe to get the exact same profile as the drill bit I used to drill the mortise so as to have no gap at the junction of the tenon and stem. I do this by chucking my drill bit in the lathe chuck, then setting the tool at the proper cutting angle.
The other end of the tenon I leave a little long, then cut to length on the lathe, checking frequently in the pipe. I also countersink the open end of the tenon. Some guys can cut the tenon just right without all this extra work, but this method works for me.
I leave a little gap between the end of the tenon and the bottom of the mortise in the shank of the pipe for expansion of the wood. Not much, just a little. I have been trying to get it to 1/100th of an inch. Don't know if that is a correct gap or not, but that is what I am trying to hit.
This is how I do it, though there may be better ways.
As far as reamers, I forgot what brand I got, but I got it from MSC as well. It has a lot of flutes on it, and it had a long shank that I cut to shorten up the reamer and get less run out from the drill press. It cost around 13 to 15 dollars I think. It also has a flat bottom.
So far I have been drilling the rod to size, then drilling a smaller diameter hole in the delrin so the epoxy has somewhere to run. Then after it dries, I drill to full diameter and get rid of the extra epoxy.
On the end of the delrin I glue into the stem, I set up the cutter on my lathe to get the exact same profile as the drill bit I used to drill the mortise so as to have no gap at the junction of the tenon and stem. I do this by chucking my drill bit in the lathe chuck, then setting the tool at the proper cutting angle.
The other end of the tenon I leave a little long, then cut to length on the lathe, checking frequently in the pipe. I also countersink the open end of the tenon. Some guys can cut the tenon just right without all this extra work, but this method works for me.
I leave a little gap between the end of the tenon and the bottom of the mortise in the shank of the pipe for expansion of the wood. Not much, just a little. I have been trying to get it to 1/100th of an inch. Don't know if that is a correct gap or not, but that is what I am trying to hit.
This is how I do it, though there may be better ways.
Just a note to emphasize Trever's advice. Not all drill bits are exactly on, and the Delrin can vary more than the nominal +/- .001 or whatever. I've had 5/16" that fit beautifully on one end of the rod, but was tight on the other, and had some 3/8" rod that was sloppy in a 3/8" hole.
Also, make sure to score grooves lengthwise in the Delrin as well as grooves around the circumference. And I recommend Brownell's Acraglas Gel epoxy. I use it to secure fly rod ferrules (the one set of ferrules I glued with Devcon came loose), and I think there is no more punishing joint than that, outside of motorsports. Cures slowly, but is extremely tough.
Jack
Also, make sure to score grooves lengthwise in the Delrin as well as grooves around the circumference. And I recommend Brownell's Acraglas Gel epoxy. I use it to secure fly rod ferrules (the one set of ferrules I glued with Devcon came loose), and I think there is no more punishing joint than that, outside of motorsports. Cures slowly, but is extremely tough.
Jack