Acrylic vs Ebonite

For discussion of fitting and shaping stems, doing inlays, and any other stem-related topic.
PipesByDesign
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Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by PipesByDesign »

I know this has probably been hashed out before... but what are the pros and cons of Acrylic vs. Ebonite? I gather that Acrylic is a bit more temperamental to work with...

Thanks!
e Markle
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Re: Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by e Markle »

Acrylic is easier to work with, doesn't oxidize and holds its shine pretty well. It is less comfortable in the mouth though. Ebonite is more expensive, tougher to work, will oxidize and doesn't hold its shine so well... hence everyone uses ebonite! The vast majority of the handmade, high grade pipe makers primarily use ebonite, ergo so do I.

Nothing wrong with using acrylic (especially to learn with), but be aware that you will probably want to begin incorporating more ebonite as time goes on.
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Mike Messer
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Re: Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by Mike Messer »

Acrylic is more difficult to drill. Even drilling at low rpm's and very short, one second passes, it melts as you drill it, then the gummy chips glue themselves to the side of the hole, but it can be done.
Also, acrylic tenons tend to be squeeky when you insert or remove the stem.
The material also is a little cold, hard, artificial looking, but not bad.
On the plus side, it's a sweet smelling material, and ebonite is a stewy sulfur ick. Acrylic also is probably more durable than ebonite which oxidizes with age and looks awful.

The classic material is ebonite, which is a little softer on the teeth, and many pipesmokers prefer it. The SEM black ebonite I use polishes to a deep mirror black and has a warm, brown, natural undertone which looks great with high quality handmade pipes.
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RadDavis
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Re: Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by RadDavis »

e Markle wrote:Acrylic is easier to work with, doesn't oxidize and holds its shine pretty well. It is less comfortable in the mouth though. Ebonite is more expensive, tougher to work, will oxidize and doesn't hold its shine so well... hence everyone uses ebonite! The vast majority of the handmade, high grade pipe makers primarily use ebonite, ergo so do I.

Nothing wrong with using acrylic (especially to learn with), but be aware that you will probably want to begin incorporating more ebonite as time goes on.
I've always found acrylic much harder to work with than ebonite. It's hard to drill without melting and getting your bit stuck in it. It's harder to sand on the wheel without melting it unless you use fresh sand paper, it has a much smaller window of opportunity when bending, and it breaks easily if you get just a little past that window, etc, etc, blah blah blah.

It does shine up pretty well though and doesn't oxidize.

Rad
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Sasquatch
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Re: Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by Sasquatch »

I agree w/Rad which makes Egarble's opinion WRONG!

There's pluses and minuses for both imho. Acrylic is hard to cut, drill and file than ebonite - it takes me about 1/2 hour longer to make a stem from acrylic rod than ebonite rod. It's snappier, which means that acrylic tenons have to be a little thicker than ebonite ones, or better yet, use delrin for tenon material on acrylic stems. I keep a bottle of soapy water around for drilling acrylic - keep it cool and it's friendly. Heat it up and it's EVIL.

The biggest pro that I see is the maintenance issue - I've got 20 year old Italian pipes that look brand new, stem wise, because the acrylic just doesn't dull out, oxydize, or get bitten up like rubber.

I will also go out on a limb here and say that I think rubber-base stem material can be tasted unless it was waxed only moments ago. I think a lot of pipe smokers have come to associate the taste of pipe with the taste of slightly oxydized rubber. It's subtle, and not entirely unpleasant, but I think it's certainly there, and just a "part of the deal" with ebonite stems in their various forms.

I've noticed a lot of "gosh, this pipe tastes better/cleaner than all the other pipes I have" sorts of comments from people who are buying a mid-grade italian pipe for the first time, for example. "Ahh it must be this briar!" Bullshit. It's the stem!
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e Markle
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Re: Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by e Markle »

RadDavis wrote:
I've always found acrylic much harder to work with than ebonite. It's hard to drill without melting and getting your bit stuck in it. It's harder to sand on the wheel without melting it unless you use fresh sand paper, it has a much smaller window of opportunity when bending, and it breaks easily if you get just a little past that window, etc, etc, blah blah blah.

It does shine up pretty well though and doesn't oxidize.

Rad
Sasquatch wrote:I agree w/Rad which makes Egarble's opinion WRONG!
This is why I don't talk to Rad or Sas :x

That's interesting, I've only made a handful of acrylic stems (so what do I know, right?), but I've made them in half the time (?) of an ebonite stem. The drilling thing is annoying, but... you just have to back it out more. As per usual, disregard everything I've posted as that will most likely save you time in the long run :lol:

P.S. Thanks for the new moniker Sas
PipesByDesign
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Re: Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by PipesByDesign »

Most interesting. Thanks for the input. I would love to use ebonite, but I gotta say the price tag is definitely frustrating. I might just bite the bullet on it though...

This forum is awesome, btw.
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RadDavis
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Re: Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by RadDavis »

e Markle wrote:
I don't talk to Rad or Sas :x
This is why you know NOTHING, you dimwit. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Rad
e Markle
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Re: Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by e Markle »

RadDavis wrote:
e Markle wrote:
I don't talk to Rad or Sas :x
This is why you know NOTHING, you dimwit. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Rad
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wdteipen
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Re: Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by wdteipen »

Overall, I find acrylic to be harder to work with files and rasps but easier to sand than ebonite. Acrylic is just a bear to turn if it's in any form other than round. Once you get it round and you use sharp tools it's not bad. I have a real tough time getting a good tenon fit with acrylic vs. ebonite and agree with Sas that a thicker tenon on an acrylic stem is better. I'm not a big fan of Delrin and rarely use it but it makes more sense on acrylic because it's less likely to break. Drilling isn't that big a deal if you clear the chips very, very often. It should only take one time getting a drill bit frozen in a chunk of acrylic to learn that one.
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PipesByDesign
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Re: Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by PipesByDesign »

Thanks for the info. I was hesitant to drop a huge chunk of change on some European ebonite, but I came across American Art Plastics and they've got some ebonite I'm going to try that is much more affordable. Evidently, they've had some issues with their initial batches of ebonite (micro-inclusions - tiny bubbles - near the center of the rods), but after feedback from the pipemaking world they've cleared those issues up. Great customer service there. I had ordered some of the old stock, but they sent me a sample piece of the new stuff to try out.
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TreverT
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Re: Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by TreverT »

Agreed on all the points listed above. One other concern is marketing - There are many collectors of high grades who erroneously believe that acrylic stems are not "high grade", and if you're not using German ebonite then you're not doing a proper high-end pipe. This opinion is wrong as wrong can be, but it's very prevalent, so it has to be taken into account when choosing materials if you want to sell your pipe for $500+.
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PipesByDesign
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Re: Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by PipesByDesign »

Good point. Although, I imagine such opinions could be swayed over time if respectable/respected pipemakers took an assertive position. Markets change, attitudes change...hopefully.
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TreverT
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Re: Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by TreverT »

PipesByDesign wrote:Good point. Although, I imagine such opinions could be swayed over time if respectable/respected pipemakers took an assertive position. Markets change, attitudes change...hopefully.

Let me know if you find any respectable pipemakers. :twisted:
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Sasquatch
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Re: Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by Sasquatch »

Here's an example of that: Great site with a lot of thoughtful pipe/pipemaker reviews, but the abhorrence of acrylic is ubiquitous in all the reviews of Italian (and some Danish) pipes which use them.

http://www.pfeifenbox.de/gallery/index5.htm
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PipesByDesign
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Re: Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by PipesByDesign »

TreverT wrote:
PipesByDesign wrote:Good point. Although, I imagine such opinions could be swayed over time if respectable/respected pipemakers took an assertive position. Markets change, attitudes change...hopefully.

Let me know if you find any respectable pipemakers. :twisted:
Haha...touche...
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oklahoma red
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Re: Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by oklahoma red »

Drilling acrylic is quite easy if you follow a few basic rules.
1. Do NOT use metal working bits. Any supplier of acrylic sheet or rod stock will carry drill bits specially ground for acrylic or similar hard plastic. They will be more pointed (90 degree or less included angle instead of 118 degrees found on most metal bits) and have other differences. If you are adept at grinding your own, there are web sites that will show you how to modify a bit.
2. Like everyone says, go slow and retract often (that's what she said).
3. LUBE IT! I like to use bees wax. Give the tip a swipe when you retract. (I won't even go there).
I drill acrylic day in and day out in my business and I never burn a hole or freeze a bit.
Try it, you'll like it.
ReverendThom
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Re: Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by ReverendThom »

I thought I'd revive a zombie just to see if opinions have changed over the last 8 years? I'm wondering which is easier to cut and learn with.

I haven't attempted pipes in quite a while - I've been making a lot of pens the last year and am used to acrylic. But trying to make a stem this week with acrylic and was wondering if ebonite is easier to learn with for cutting a stem.
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Re: Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by DocAitch »

My experience with acrylic is similar to Rad’s and the Sasquatch’s.
it requires a toothier file to shape because is is “slippery”.
If it really cold, it will chip unless you go very slow.
Soapy water and frequent debris clearing is necessary to prevent galling, which is very undesirable with the semi transparent acrylics, where the airway can be seen.
I have not tried Oklahoma Red’s special bits. I use the same ones on both materials.
I am also a fan of Delrin tenons, but you have to be careful if the acrylic is transparent because if your gluing is not very careful, it looks like shit, and you may not find that out until reach the polishing stage.
I find ebonite to be very easy to cut and shape in comparison.
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Massis
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Re: Acrylic vs Ebonite

Post by Massis »

Acrylic is cheaper and doesn't get ugly over time. That's about it. I think ebonite shapes easier, quicker, sands smoother and polishes prettier.
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