Gone

[Kenny]

I just decided to delete this.

[Sasquatch]

Good God.... how long does this take all told??

[RadDavis]

A stem with a seam along its entire length is a really, really bad idea.

Rad

[Alan L]

And how does it respond to bending? CA tends to let go when heated...

I just line it up in a vise and use a hand drill. Can't guarantee a length, but I can usually get 8 or ten inches without enough runout to make it unusable.

Here's a 12-incher. Forgive the horrible bend, please.

[Kenny]

Good God.... how long does this take all told??

Not including glue dry time, under an hour. It sounds much more complex than it is.

As for bending, I haven't had any issues. From what I can tell, it's not so much a CA glue bond as it is a chemical weld. If you put CA on acrylic, you can see it sort of softens/melts the acrylic.

I got the idea from a buddy of mine who does commercial/industrial work with Corian. They glue that stuff together in all sorts of different ways, and you can rarely ever see the seam.

So, I decided to try to make some pens from laminated Corian, and it worked great! You couldn't see a seam at all. So, having a bunch of acrylic scraps, I tried the same with that. Same thing, you can buff it to a glass-like shine and not see a seam at all. Heck, I've glued it together and then snapped it to test the seam strength, and the acrylic broke, not the seam.

As for bending, I haven't had any issues. But I am very careful not to overheat the acrylic.

[Kenny]

A stem with a seam along its entire length is a really, really bad idea.

Rad

Really? Have you tried what I speak of with acrylic, or are you speaking about experience with wood? I'm familiar with the wooden stems on a certain "LOTR" themed pipe which are known to crack at the seams, and I assure you, this is a totally different animal.

If you have some evidence of a stem made in this manner, using my technique, that has failed, please show me and I will remove this whole post.

[Kenny]

Ok, I understand the uncertainty. I was skeptical at first myself. But I wouldn't post this if I wasn't sure it worked. Is it the best solution in the world? Probably not. But the results are much more predictable, and with a much lower failure rate, than trying to drill a 10"+ hole through acrylic.

I've made several of these now, and not had a single failure. I tried deep-hole-drilling, and with a pretty good set-up too, and I lost a drill bit on my first attempt. And even on the second, the hole was off-center by nearly 3/16" on exit of the blank.

I'll post pictures of the whole process in a few days (I'm awaiting the arrival of my acrylic order).

I will say though, if you can see a seam where you glued the halves together (sand and buff the seam, it should be invisible), you didn't get a good bond and you need to either scrap it or saw it in half again and start over. A proper bond will be invisible, no glue line whatsoever. This means you achieved a chemical weld, which is what you want. If you can see a glue-line, you are relying on the CA for strength and it will not only look bad, but will surely fail.

[RadDavis]

Really? Have you tried what I speak of with acrylic, or are you speaking about experience with wood? I'm familiar with the wooden stems on a certain "LOTR" themed pipe which are known to crack at the seams, and I assure you, this is a totally different animal.

If you have some evidence of a stem made in this manner, using my technique, that has failed, please show me and I will remove this whole post.

Obviously I have not tried it, because making a stem with a seam along it's length is a really, really bad idea.

I have no evidence at all. I just know it's a really. really bad idea.

It will also be a hard sell, I think, if you choose to reveal to any potential customers what the process is. There are any number of churchwardens out there that don't have stem with a seam in it. Why would any body buy one that does?

I'm not trying to be harsh, but just because you figured out a way to make a long stem in an unorthodox manner doesn't mean that the idea is a good one, if you're wanting to sell pipes. If they're just for yourself, there's nothing wrong with experimenting with something like this, but promoting it as an option for making long stems is wrong headed, I think, for the guys who are looking to sell their work.

Rad

[Kenny]

Rad,

I respect you and your opinion, and if you want to know the truth, I respect you a lot. I know of your work, and it's top notch. You have every right to feel the way you do. And I won't try to change your mind, as there are other ways to skin this here cat, this is just my way.

What I do know, is I have worked with acrylic a lot over the past few years, probably handling 500-600 blanks, plus all the Corian I've gone through, as well as what I've cast myself. And I've laminated enough of the stuff over time to know that if it's done properly, it's not going anywhere.

And if one were concerned with the CA, you could simply use IPS Weld-On #4 or #16. These solvent cements are used in the fabrication of large acrylic aquariums (200+ gallons), and bond extremely strong.
In reality, when you use the acrylic cement, which is actually a solvent and not in any way an adhesive), the pieces being bonded actually fuse and become one.
(Due to people's concerns, I would recommend anyone use the acrylic cement over the CA, as it is more fool-proof and will result in a perfect bond every time)

In my eyes, if the acrylic cement can hold an aquarium together with 2000+lbs of water inside, I'm not at all concerned with it holding together a pipe stem.

You also may want to watch the video in the link below. It will explain how the bonding takes place much better than I can.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&featu ... T6Ow_cBTps

Kenny

[RadDavis]

Thanks for your kind words, Kenny. I'm pretty sure you know a lot more about handling acrylic than I do.

The truth is, it's not about the seam holding up or being an undetectable chemical weld. It's about perception by potential customers. No matter how well you educate them as to the process and how strong the bond is, they will perceive it as a stem with a seam in it and wonder how it's going to hold up over the years and probably avoid it.

The only truth that matters to customers is what they themselves believe, and they are a very, very traditional lot. Whether right or wrong, their opinions are very strong about what a pipe should be, and I can almost assure you that one of those opinions will be that a stem should not have a seam along its entire length.

I could be wrong though.

Rad

[Ironpenny]

The idea is interesting, but I don't think your wrong Rad.

I wouldn't buy one, although that's just me and definitely not to be taken as any kind of general consensus.

Moreover, I would be pissed if I found out after the fact. It's like finding out that your car had originaly been welded together out of two differnent cars and you didn't know until one day your back seat goes left when you go right.


Chris

[Skip]

A former employe of mind wanted a acrylic stem for one of his better pipes a few years ago. I do not do repairs but decided to try it as a favor to him. I came up with a OUT OF THE BOX plan as well. I chucked up a 9 inch rod in my lathe and drilled a hole through it. I just made it the same as any other hand cut stem. No drama at all, sorry.

[caskwith]

If it works for you then great, the idea is clever and i am sure you tested it well. just make sure that if you do sell any you are clear with your customer that the stem is not one piece because as Rad says, the pipe community is funny about some things.

[baweaverpipes]

How silly. So very silly.
I believe I could have drilled and shaped a stem in the time it took to type the directions.

[Kenny]

How silly. So very silly.
I believe I could have drilled and shaped a stem in the time it took to type the directions.

I want to see you drill a 14" stem, and then shape it in under 10 minutes.

[Kenny]

A former employe of mind wanted a acrylic stem for one of his better pipes a few years ago. I do not do repairs but decided to try it as a favor to him. I came up with a OUT OF THE BOX plan as well. I chucked up a 9 inch rod in my lathe and drilled a hole through it. I just made it the same as any other hand cut stem. No drama at all, sorry.

Ok, now take away the lathe.

Not everyone has a lathe.

I didn't ask to be critiqued either.

But, I do smoke my 22" stemmed churchwarden quite often, and I enjoy the heck out of it.

[Leus]

Kenny,

If it works for you, by all means go for it. I wouldn't mind having a pipe done this way (with cement instead of CA) for my personal use. But I think many customers would pass if you tell them this stem is a two-piece thing.

Over the years we have seen lots of ideas come and go. You can still see discussions about alternative materials for bowl and stem popping up; this native wood here, this new plastic there, a pipe with the stem glued to the bowl, etc. We have seen it all. Guess what? People still prefer buying a briar pipe with an ebonite (and sometimes acrylic) stem sticked to it in a "normal" way over almost anything else (and this includes stuff like meerschaum, olive, corncobs or morta pipes.) So any resistance you meet here may have to do with experienced pipemakers knowing what works and what doesn't in a practical sense (and this includes the commercial aspects of any method!)

That's also why you would see raised eyebrows any time a new user claims that they sand their pipes up to 10,000 grit, or that they polish their bowls smooth or that they have created this thingamajik with 30 movable parts to bend a stem, or that they buff their pipes with some unthinkable body parts. Okay, that last one may be actually received enthusiastically by some, but you get the idea.

(edit: 22 inches stem? well, that's something to see

[RadDavis]

I didn't ask to be critiqued either.

When you post a new idea on this forum, you're pretty much automatically asking to be critiqued.

Whether it's "That sounds like a good idea!" or "That's a very, very bad idea.", other pipe makers are going to express their opinions.

This is the way we learn from each other.

Rad

[Sasquatch]

I thought the 30 part stem-bending thingamajiggy was awesome. You guys really know how to piss on a guy's parade.

I think the idea presented above is a good one, but without pics a guy can't judge it, and the clientele are indeed very likely NOT to prefer a two-piece stem if a one piece one is available, and they are.

It's NOT that easy for most of us to drill 15" of acrylic, which is why you don't see THAT many hand made warden stems.

[andrew]

I didn't ask to be critiqued either.

When you post a new idea on this forum, you're pretty much automatically asking to be critiqued.

Whether it's "That sounds like a good idea!" or "That's a very, very bad idea.", other pipe makers are going to express their opinions.

This is the way we learn from each other.

Rad

If you're going to post instructions or whatever on some method of something, Rad is right, it's an invitation for critique (or at the very a good slap fight with Kurt). No one is trying to antagonize here, but the point of the forum is to learn. If an idea is posted that might be questionable you can expect quite a response (like what you've experienced here). Quite a few guys use the forum search function (like me) and if something questionable went unanswered we might spend time/money on something that yielded less than desirable results (not that that is the case here, just sayin). So all this to say, experimentation can be good, just be prepared for... well you've experienced it, a little bit of worded caution.