Need help with a churchwarden stem

[oklahoma red]

I'm in the process of making my first churchwarden and I've hit a wall with the stem and my current lack of the proper equipment. I have not yet reached a skill level to attempt hand making a stem that's 8" long and as slender as a churchwarden needs to be so I've bought some molded stems and and I'm sure everyone will agree that they are anything but precision.
Problem is that I have a Delta midi wood lathe and a little Taig and neither have a big enough bore thru the spindle to allow me to chuck the stem and finish the tenon and true up the o.d. I cannot envision a practical way of trying to hold it between centers. Next is the stem itself and the fact that the airway is way off center in the existing oversize tenon so that rules out using a PIMO style tenon cutter as the tenon would wind up way off-center in relation to the o.d. of the stem. There is not enough meat on the o.d. of the stem to true it all back up. So without having a larger metal cutting lathe am I screwed?

Chas.

Believe in the "P" principle: Proper Planning Prevents Piss-Poor Performance.

[e Markle]

I think the easiest fix here involves pin gauges. You should be able to pick up an M1 set of pin gauges which i believe runs from .62"-.250", and a live center would be helpful. chuck the appropriate pin in the lathe (roughly .157" if the airway is drilled at 5/32) then stick the stem onto the pin. Back the live center up to the slot, and you should be able to cut a tenon.

[oklahoma red]

I understand what your are saying, however, I will have to carefully enlarge the airway to .156 by hand as the molded-in hole is about 3mm (.118).
I have a live center, but am I going to have a problem with the stem trying to wobble as I will be inserting the tip of the live center into a slot rather than a hole? Just relying on your experience as I've never tried it.
Bottom line is I bought a dozen stems so I have some room to get creative on holding the bugger.
The more I think about it the more I agree that the only solution is to somehow get it between centers.
Thanks for the tip.

Chas.

[e Markle]

Well, the issue of the cutting the tenon won't be a problem with those pin gauges. In this case you'd just pick the .118 or .119 pin out of the set, and you're good to go.

As far as widening the draft hole, I'd be tempted to basically do the same thing I mentioned with the pin gauges - except you'd swap the pin gauge for a 5/32 drill bit. Put the stem between the live center (dead center would work here too) and the bit, start the lathe, and guide the bit with your left hand while advancing the tail stock with your right hand.

That's how I'd do it... anyone have any better ideas?

[KurtHuhn]

Molded chuchwarden stems can be a serious pain the ass. A larger metal lathe and a collet chuck can make short work of them, or at least make them less painful.

Do you have a drill press? If so, I think the easiest thing for you to do is to get yourself some 1/4" delrin and use that. Most drill presses have a hole in the table you can pass the stem through, then just use a typical drill press vise (most also have through-holes to keep weight down) to clamp it in as straight as you can get it. Cut the oversized tenon off, clamp it in the vise, face it with a forstner bit, drill the 1/4" hole in the stem, then epoxy in your pre-drilled and prepped delrin tenon. Just be sure not to move anything but the spindle and drill bits when you change from forstner to 1/4" bit.

That should get you about as close to a precision fit as you're going to get without a larger lathe.

Either way, you probably want to get a set of long length taper point drill bits to redrill some of the airway. Those churchwarden stems don't have the best airway "as molded". The safest is a 1/8" bit since the stems can be fragile, and like to crack in the very narrow portions near the button if you get too heavy-handed while re-drilling.

[oklahoma red]

I thought about Delrin. In your experience is there any issue of flexing at the joint with this long stem since Delrin is not super rigid? In my favor is the fact the the stummel is a small poker. The whole thing will be fly-weight.

Chas.

[KurtHuhn]

Delrin is pretty darn rigid in short sections. Not as much as ebonite, but certainly more than enough for the purpose of pipe making.

[andrew]

Before I had my lathe I used the approach Kurt is talking about (with the drill press). It worked out pretty well. As long as you go slow it should be ok. Just be careful getting the stem centered under the drill press. Good luck.

[andrew]

I would also second Kurt's comment about boring out the stem. It is a little tricky. The stems can crack really easily near the thinner section (I cracked a few this way).

[caskwith]

Personally i would ask someone with a metal lathe to face and fit a delrin tenon for you. I have used those stems before and they are a pain in the ass, best to get it done properly. I would happily do it but you might be better finding someone in the US as postage would be expensive.

[oklahoma red]

Very kind of you to offer. I'm going to muddle thru at this point in time as I'm still in the learning mode and every pipe I'm making I'm keeping to puff on while I'm making the next one. Hopefully I can look back at them at some point and see progress.
I'm searching and re-searching right now trying to find a decent metal lathe. I hate buying the usual Chinese crap but I may not have any choice seeing as how they've run everyone else out of business. But that is another story. Money is not an issue within reason. I just don't like feeding that bunch of Commie bastards. I'd love to find a good used Clausing or South Bend.

Chas.

[taharris]

There is one other option if you feel more comfortible working on your lathe between centers.

Take a waste block and cut a chanel in one face just larger than the bit of your stem. This cut doesn't have to be exact.

Chuck up the waste block and, using a Jacob's chuck, drill a hole part way through the block with a bit that will just fit in the hole on the bit end of your stem.

Remove the drill bit from the Jacob's chuck and insert it into the hole you just made.

You can now mount your stem with the bit end in the waste block and the tenon end held with a live center in your tailstock.

Good Luck,

Todd

[KurtHuhn]

You know, I've seen guys do that with shorter stems, but the Churchwarden stems are so long, and so bendy, I've always been afraid they'd just flex right out of the jig. I've never tried it though, so maybe it's just an irrational fear.

[oklahoma red]

Excellent tip. Mucho grasses.

Chas.

[SimeonTurner]

There is one other option if you feel more comfortible working on your lathe between centers.

Take a waste block and cut a chanel in one face just larger than the bit of your stem. This cut doesn't have to be exact.

Chuck up the waste block and, using a Jacob's chuck, drill a hole part way through the block with a bit that will just fit in the hole on the bit end of your stem.

Remove the drill bit from the Jacob's chuck and insert it into the hole you just made.

You can now mount your stem with the bit end in the waste block and the tenon end held with a live center in your tailstock.

Good Luck,

Todd

I never had luck with that back when I was using a wood lathe and making pipes with premolds. Too much flex in the stem, like Kurt said. I never had a stem go flying or break, but I also couldn't ever get a nice clean cut because there was too much vibration.

I really think your best bet is to use a drill press with the stem extending through the hole in the press table and clamped in place from above so you can drill a draught hole and face it without moving anything.

Good luck!

[taharris]

I never tried it with a long stem, so you better listen to the voice of experience.

Todd

[Mark Beattie]

My order of Churchwarden pre-mold's arrived today. I am going to attempt the drill press/Delrin method that has been suggested here. How have you, in the past, accounted for the stems taper in the vice? It seems that there wouldn't be enough surface area for the vice to get a good grip on the stem with such as small amount of the stem making contact with the vice itself. I could be wrong of course, but I've seen pictures of other's that have made some sort of jig ( maybe a squared block with 'V' grooves in it ) to accommodate the stem a little better.

Am I over-thinking this ( as I seem to do with most things )?

Thanks,

Mark

[Kenny]

Make some V-blocks from wood, it'll be fine.

Hand-cut the slot to fit the stem if necessary, though I don't see you having issues.

[kkendall]

Perhaps the easiest approach with preformed churchwarden stems (with limited equipment)

Run a #30 drill into the airway at the tenon
Use a tenon cutter to cut the tenon to size
Run an extra long 5/32" tapered drill bit as far in as it can reach
Use a 1/16" drill bit and flare the slot as deep as possible
Use modified slot saw and files to widen/deepen the slot

Note: when drilling (with the #30 and 5/32 bit)
You don't need to chuck the stem. Chuck the bits and run the stem onto the drill bits by hand.

[oklahoma red]

My order of Churchwarden pre-mold's arrived today. I am going to attempt the drill press/Delrin method that has been suggested here. How have you, in the past, accounted for the stems taper in the vice? It seems that there wouldn't be enough surface area for the vice to get a good grip on the stem with such as small amount of the stem making contact with the vice itself. I could be wrong of course, but I've seen pictures of other's that have made some sort of jig ( maybe a squared block with 'V' grooves in it ) to accommodate the stem a little better.

Am I over-thinking this ( as I seem to do with most things )?

Thanks,

Mark

Mark,
Since I originally started this thread over a year ago, I'll chime back in to tell what I wound up doing.
Everything everyone said about Churchwarden pre-molds is correct. They are sorry SOBs.
I went the drill press route. I made a couple of V blocks on a router table and cut them a little shorter than the stem. Your concern about the holding the taper in V blocks is founded. I used modeling clay in the V grooves to fill the gaps and provide support. The airway hole at the tenon was way off-center on the batch I got. I think a 5 year old in Ethiopia made the mold. I sawed the tenon off taking a bit of the body of the stem with it. I plunged down with a very sharp flat bottom end mill to square off the end. Obviously, this set up is critical. Take your time to make sure the stem is straight up and down before you square it off. Again, the since the air way is so far off center I used another slightly small end mill to bore the mortise then reamed it to final size with a chucking reamer. Take your time and get it centered the best you can. If the air ways on these stems were centered life would be a lot easier. After gluing in the Delrin rod (pre-bored the air way) I re-drilled as deep as I dared with a long, tapered .156 bit and prayed that it would not exit somewhere half way down the stem. Any way, it worked. Lock the drill press table and move the vise to do any final tweaking on the positioning then carefully clamp the vise to the table and hope that nothing moves. If your drill press spindle has a lot of run-out then you are going to have problems.
Current technique is using acrylic rod stock on a small metal lathe with a steady rest to keep the rod from flapping in the breeze. Soooo much better.
Good luck!
Chas.