Stem tightener?

[RadDavis]

This might be a good time to point out that the overall quality of the pipe is going to be "beginner" anyway. It isn't that I don't care about quality, but rather that I am being realistic about it. This is for my best friend, but he is also a guy whose best pipe ever has been a $35.00 cheapie from the local smoke shop. If the one I am making for him turns out as well as my last one for function (aesthetics aside), he will really enjoy how it smokes.

This is what I was assuming, Bill.

I'm not as anal as George.

But I'm not a repair guy either and they have to worry about all manner of shit when repairing collectables.

Rad

[oklahoma red]

Gauge pins. Bevel the end.
Chas.

[LatakiaLover]

Gauge pins. Bevel the end.

Not long enough sometimes. Sets start at 50 pieces. Pins cost $$$ when purchased individually.

PS -- where the hell you been, boy?

[oklahoma red]

Gauge pins. Bevel the end.


Not long enough sometimes. Sets start at 50 pieces. Pins cost $$$ when purchased individually.

PS -- where the hell you been, boy?

Hi Dad! (snicker) I've been lurking everyday. I open up when I have something semi-meaningful to add.
I've had good luck with the pins. Bought the first set (small ones) on eBay and Ernie the remarkable sold me his big-un's for a very reasonable price.
As others have said, the vast majority will remain unwrapped in their box. BUT, at least you know you'll have that odd-ball SOB if you ever need it.
You must remember that makers don't always have the same needs as repairmen. I doubt I'll ever need a three foot long pin to clean out someone's hookah hose.
17 degrees and snowing like crazy here in central Okieland. Told my employees to stay home and I'm doing the same. Too bad it's too damn cold to work on a pipe. Gotta heat the garage one of these days. Yes, I know, you're all toasty warm in your INSIDE-the-house shop. Turd.
Stay warm anyway. I wonder if Scottie finally put some shoes on?
Chas.

[scotties22]

As a matter of fact I did put shoes on......a couple of weeks ago actually. They are slip on rubber garden shoes that I keep in the garage.

Go buy yourself an oil filled radiant heater at Lowes. $60 and it will heat your entire garage and it's way safer than any forced air heater.

[oklahoma red]

As a matter of fact I did put shoes on......a couple of weeks ago actually. They are slip on rubber garden shoes that I keep in the garage.

Go buy yourself an oil filled radiant heater at Lowes. $60 and it will heat your entire garage and it's way safer than any forced air heater.

Glad you are looking out for your tootsies. Can you imagine dropping something on a cold foot? OW!
Thanks for the heater tip. I've seen those at various places but I didn't know if they were worth a flip.

AND! Ta-Dah, Ta-Dah! Congrats on being picked up by TPC! I still remember that first pipe. Way to go girl!
Chas.

[LittleBill]

Bill,

Another option is to just roll up some sandpaper and sand the inside of the mortise so the delrin will fit better. I do this on every pipe I make. It also will clean up the mortise a little from tool marks. Just be sure to get grit out of the mortise before you put the tenon back in.

Premal, this is a great idea, and one that just didn't even come to my mind. That might come from being married for 30 years and raising three daughters. It is always easier to deal with the tenon than the mortise. You raise an excellent point, and one which I will explore on the next pipe should the need arise. Thanks.

[scotties22]

Bill,

Another option is to just roll up some sandpaper and sand the inside of the mortise so the delrin will fit better. I do this on every pipe I make. It also will clean up the mortise a little from tool marks. Just be sure to get grit out of the mortise before you put the tenon back in.

Premal, this is a great idea, and one that just didn't even come to my mind. That might come from being married for 30 years and raising three daughters. It is always easier to deal with the tenon than the mortise. You raise an excellent point, and one which I will explore on the next pipe should the need arise. Thanks.

Hey, Hey, Hey.......oh, never mind you're right.

Thanks Chaz. We'll see how it goes.

[LittleBill]

Bill,

Another option is to just roll up some sandpaper and sand the inside of the mortise so the delrin will fit better. I do this on every pipe I make. It also will clean up the mortise a little from tool marks. Just be sure to get grit out of the mortise before you put the tenon back in.

Premal, this is a great idea, and one that just didn't even come to my mind. That might come from being married for 30 years and raising three daughters. It is always easier to deal with the tenon than the mortise. You raise an excellent point, and one which I will explore on the next pipe should the need arise. Thanks.

Hey, Hey, Hey.......oh, never mind you're right.

Thanks Chaz. We'll see how it goes.

I wondered how long it would take for you to see that.

[PremalChheda]

Bill,

Another option is to just roll up some sandpaper and sand the inside of the mortise so the delrin will fit better. I do this on every pipe I make. It also will clean up the mortise a little from tool marks. Just be sure to get grit out of the mortise before you put the tenon back in.

Premal, this is a great idea, and one that just didn't even come to my mind. That might come from being married for 30 years and raising three daughters. It is always easier to deal with the tenon than the mortise. You raise an excellent point, and one which I will explore on the next pipe should the need arise. Thanks.

For some reason, all the delrin I buy is just a few thousandths over the measurement. Instead of taking it down, I find it much easier to adjust the mortise to it. I am cutting the mortise to just a hair under the actual size and once it is stabilized I sand it down so I have a nice snug fit with the delrin that is not too tight. Perfect fit every time.

If you need to build a mortise up, you can use shellac, lacquer, or glue and then ream and sand it down.

[mcgregorpipes]

had this idea seems like a good place to throw it out there. I fixed a shop pipe with a loose tenon with CA on q tip to coat the mortise. seemed to add a thou or two. its invisible, isn't any more exposed to the draft than the epoxy used to glue a delrin tenon in or the epoxy in a shank extension, so is this a big faux pas or a magical fix? also considered sodium silicate might have worked as well, which for the boal coating crowd would be acceptable to have in contact with the airway. I'm sure making a new stem or expanding the tenon is the proper technique, but I was thinking the water glass or ca swab maybe followed by reamer would produce a clean tighter sized mortise. is there potential issues with the fit or someone gasping that their mortise is too shiny? is this ever an acceptable fix for a mid range pipe?

Coating and reaming a mortise must be done by hand, and an off-axis result is the too-likely outcome. Then you have a whole new can of worms to deal with. (Sometimes there is no choice but to rebuild a mortise, but when, why, and how is a whole different subject.)

Coating a tenon to enlarge it will never work on Delrin (for long), and depending on the pipe will eventually deteriorate on plastic and vulcanite. Some substances work better than others, and the solution is fine as a quick way to return a tobacco access device back to service, but a band-aid approach isn't a proper pipe repair, imo.

you can coat a mortise to improve the stem shank junction or what other repair calls for that? Seems like some serious pipe repair Kung fu I'm curious. also using a lot of delrin lately so if there's a loose tenon I take blame with morise and assume something moved or there was runout or vibration drilling the mortise, so my initial reaction is to blame the mortise for being oversized.. which would have me looking at the heat gun to change the delrin and then looking a the ca or the sodium silicate and thinking this stem feels like it needs about one or two thou to make I tight enough. seriously I understand that making a new tenon is the proper pproach, but if you really want to use delrin is it better to try and expand it? probably less of a consideration in a proper repair job, as a new pipe maker who likes to experiment when a flaw or mistake appears I would tend to fix it by changing the pipe like redrilling the mortise even making the shank shorter and refacing. is the coated mortise really just off the table for good results?

[PremalChheda]

had this idea seems like a good place to throw it out there. I fixed a shop pipe with a loose tenon with CA on q tip to coat the mortise. seemed to add a thou or two. its invisible, isn't any more exposed to the draft than the epoxy used to glue a delrin tenon in or the epoxy in a shank extension, so is this a big faux pas or a magical fix? also considered sodium silicate might have worked as well, which for the boal coating crowd would be acceptable to have in contact with the airway. I'm sure making a new stem or expanding the tenon is the proper technique, but I was thinking the water glass or ca swab maybe followed by reamer would produce a clean tighter sized mortise. is there potential issues with the fit or someone gasping that their mortise is too shiny? is this ever an acceptable fix for a mid range pipe?

Coating and reaming a mortise must be done by hand, and an off-axis result is the too-likely outcome. Then you have a whole new can of worms to deal with. (Sometimes there is no choice but to rebuild a mortise, but when, why, and how is a whole different subject.)

Coating a tenon to enlarge it will never work on Delrin (for long), and depending on the pipe will eventually deteriorate on plastic and vulcanite. Some substances work better than others, and the solution is fine as a quick way to return a tobacco access device back to service, but a band-aid approach isn't a proper pipe repair, imo.

you can coat a mortise to improve the stem shank junction or what other repair calls for that? Seems like some serious pipe repair Kung fu I'm curious. also using a lot of delrin lately so if there's a loose tenon I take blame with morise and assume something moved or there was runout or vibration drilling the mortise, so my initial reaction is to blame the mortise for being oversized.. which would have me looking at the heat gun to change the delrin and then looking a the ca or the sodium silicate and thinking this stem feels like it needs about one or two thou to make I tight enough. seriously I understand that making a new tenon is the proper pproach, but if you really want to use delrin is it better to try and expand it? probably less of a consideration in a proper repair job, as a new pipe maker who likes to experiment when a flaw or mistake appears I would tend to fix it by changing the pipe like redrilling the mortise even making the shank shorter and refacing. is the coated mortise really just off the table for good results?

I would not recommend trying to expand delrin, although I have never tried it. From my experience working with delrin, it does not change shape and hold. It is flexible and slick and therefore you can fit a larger diameter delrin into a smaller mortise.

Adjusting the mortise to a smaller diameter is fairly easy with whatever substance as long as it is done carefully and is acceptable as a repair or new product if it is done correctly.

[The Smoking Yeti]

17 degrees and snowing like crazy here in central Okieland. Told my employees to stay home and I'm doing the same. Too bad it's too damn cold to work on a pipe. Gotta heat the garage one of these days. Yes, I know, you're all toasty warm in your INSIDE-the-house shop. Turd.

I have a carriage garage shop with poor insulation and no heating. Last night the temp. in there dropped to around -15 degrees. Did that stop me from getting up and after it this morning!? Heavens to betsy no! 17degrees and snowing.... PFFT!

Lightweight.

Yeti

P.S.

If you guys were curious, masking tape can freeze.

[Oakbear]

For some reason, all the delrin I buy is just a few thousandths over the measurement. Instead of taking it down, I find it much easier to adjust the mortise to it. I am cutting the mortise to just a hair under the actual size and once it is stabilized I sand it down so I have a nice snug fit with the delrin that is not too tight. Perfect fit every time.

Most suppliers tend to supply over diameter so it can be machined down as accuratley as you need. Or that's a great excuse for not making accurate stock!

I turn the delrin down to dimension, but your method makes a lot more sense!

[kkendall]

Most (if not all) folks will drill out the mortise in one pass... in and out and you're done.

If you have a bit that consistently cuts a mortise slightly undersize for your delrin, I'd recommend that you run the drill bit in a second time, all the way into the bottom of the mortise. That extra pass wont be removing a lot, but it might shave another .001 or so off the ID of the mortise.

You may also want to consider changing your drill bit. I use a screw machine bit... very short, extremely ridgid, and zero flex.

Another possibility is to use a center cut end mill as your drill bit. The end mill will indeed cut the mortise slightly oversize. Unlike a regular drill bit, the side flutes are designed as a cutting edge (and are razor sharp).

Regular bit vs screw machine bit:

[KurtHuhn]

Hey Bill,

First, try heating the tenon up with a heat gun and the dunking it in cold water. Sometimes this will expand the tenon enough for a good fit.

Barring that, you can use a knitting needle to insert into the warm tenon end to expand it, slowly twisting it as you go so as to keep the expansion even. Don't just jam it up in there, go slowly. If it gets too big, do it again.

Rad

I was going to say an ice pick, but a knitting needle is an excellent idea.

Hell, I've fixed some tenons by heating them up and pressing them face-first against a hard surface until they cool. This may not work for anyone else but me, but it's quick and easy. I forget who told me that trick. Trever maybe?

Anyway, it looks like you got it solved. And now you know that half of making something is figuring out how to recover when things don't go 100% correctly.

[Tyler]

Bill,

Another option is to just roll up some sandpaper and sand the inside of the mortise so the delrin will fit better. I do this on every pipe I make. It also will clean up the mortise a little from tool marks. Just be sure to get grit out of the mortise before you put the tenon back in.

Premal, this is a great idea, and one that just didn't even come to my mind. That might come from being married for 30 years and raising three daughters. It is always easier to deal with the tenon than the mortise. You raise an excellent point, and one which I will explore on the next pipe should the need arise. Thanks.

For some reason, all the delrin I buy is just a few thousandths over the measurement. Instead of taking it down, I find it much easier to adjust the mortise to it. I am cutting the mortise to just a hair under the actual size and once it is stabilized I sand it down so I have a nice snug fit with the delrin that is not too tight. Perfect fit every time.

If you need to build a mortise up, you can use shellac, lacquer, or glue and then ream and sand it down.

How do you do the sanding? I'm surprised that you aren't creating a taper in the mortise.

[WCannoy]

Are we still working under the premise that all of these 'fixes' are acceptable for artisan pipe production? Or are we just throwing out ideas for repairs?

If I just paid several hundred dollars for a new handmade pipe, and found out that the tenon had not been turned to fit the mortise properly and was jerry-rigged into fitting... well, I'd be pissed!

Do it right, or do it over.

[LittleBill]

Are we still working under the premise that all of these 'fixes' are acceptable for artisan pipe production? Or are we just throwing out ideas for repairs?

If I just paid several hundred dollars for a new handmade pipe, and found out that the tenon had not been turned to fit the mortise properly and was jerry-rigged into fitting... well, I'd be pissed!

Do it right, or do it over.

While I only speak for myself, I don't know that anyone is saying that. I am sure there are some folks out there who would think that anything that works is legitimate. I'm still learning. I know very little about making a good pipe, and I don't assume anything. But I will write this as an experienced teacher and somewhat artistic woodturner.

When I have a student who comes to learn, one of the things we discuss is how to fix problems. I teach people what problems are fixable and what aren't. Beyond that, I discuss what fixes are appropriate and what aren't. A big hole in an art bowl (in the right places) makes it worth more. A big hole in a functional bowl makes it worth less. Some holes benefit from being filled. Some don't. Lot's of almost finished pieces get tossed into the furnace. But I don't like tossing something if it can be fixed legitimately.

My goal here is to learn what is fixable and what isn't, and why. From that point of view, I think this has been a good discussion. I don't necessarily think all the methods above are a good idea, but some have merit.

And, I am working on a second stem, but for different reasons. But even in that failure I have learned bunches.

[PremalChheda]

How do you do the sanding? I'm surprised that you aren't creating a taper in the mortise.

I got skillz. I'm only taking off .001.to .002 of material off. Rolled up sandpaper at 400+ grit.