facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

For discussion of fitting and shaping stems, doing inlays, and any other stem-related topic.
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Josh B.
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facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by Josh B. »

i am working with a drill press to do all of my drilling for my pipes at the moment (no moneys for a lathe being a poor college kid) and I have a problem facing and drilling rod stock. I clamp it in and follow all the steps of facing and drilling a mortise for the delrin but when I fit the stem to the pipe there is almost always a gap on one side. I made a very simple vise from some hardwood scrap and bolts (srry for the crappy paint drawing, just trying to give a better idea of what im working with.) is there anything I need to know that my be messing me up here
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sandahlpipe
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Re: facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by sandahlpipe »

As long as your vise is lined up properly, I would check if your Forstner bit is sharp. Make sure it leaves a really smooth surface. Also, make sure you face and then drill the mortise without moving the table or he vise. I would recommend a Freud brand Forstner bit as the ones you buy at the hardware store aren't as accurate. They weren't necessarily made for flat surfaces, just drilling holes, so make sure they are sharp and accurate.

As a last resort, you could possibly have an issue with the drill press being a bit off-center, in which case alignment in the vise would be important.
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oklahoma red
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Re: facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by oklahoma red »

As a last resort, you could possibly have an issue with the drill press being a bit off-center, in which case alignment in the vise would be important.
To further emphasize what Sandahl mentions, it is absolutely critical that the drill press table be perpendicular to the drill's spindle center-line.
If you are working with a boat-anchor drill press do not apply a lot of downward force when drilling and facing as the table can flex. Be sure the table clamps are tight before drilling. Your jig can be 100% accurate but if the drill press is not right then you WILL have problems. In other words lock everything down to prevent any movement, make sure everything is square, use sharp cutters and take it easy. As soon as you land that 6 figure job after graduation, invest in some quality tools.
Good luck!
Chas.
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sandahlpipe
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Re: facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by sandahlpipe »

oklahoma red wrote:
As a last resort, you could possibly have an issue with the drill press being a bit off-center, in which case alignment in the vise would be important.
To further emphasize what Sandahl mentions, it is absolutely critical that the drill press table be perpendicular to the drill's spindle center-line.
If you are working with a boat-anchor drill press do not apply a lot of downward force when drilling and facing as the table can flex. Be sure the table clamps are tight before drilling. Your jig can be 100% accurate but if the drill press is not right then you WILL have problems. In other words lock everything down to prevent any movement, make sure everything is square, use sharp cutters and take it easy. As soon as you land that 6 figure job after graduation, invest in some quality tools.
Good luck!
Chas.
But I think the issue is probably sharp tools. A sharp enough tool won't put pressure on the table enough to make it flex.


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andrew
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Re: facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by andrew »

Chas is right. There are quite a few ways to go wrong on a drill press. You just have to eliminate the culprits one at a time (or two/three at a time :))
Just out of curiousity, how hard is it to drive in your delrin into the rod stock?

andrew
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LittleBill
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Re: facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by LittleBill »

sandahlpipe wrote:But I think the issue is probably sharp tools. A sharp enough tool won't put pressure on the table enough to make it flex.


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Sharp tools are always important. But people can cause tables, work, and all sorts of other things to flex if the pressure is there. I see it all the time in students. Learning to work with a machine instead of forcing it is a learned skill as well as everything else. And some machines require extra care and attention to setup and in use to work well. I cannot say this is the case with the machine Josh has, but it is a possibility.
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oklahoma red
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Re: facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by oklahoma red »

But I think the issue is probably sharp tools. A sharp enough tool won't put pressure on the table enough to make it flex.
Think about it a second. Sharp cutters are definitely part of the equation. BUT, you can have the sharpest cutters in the universe and you'll still wind up with a gap on one side of the joint if the rod you are facing did not start off absolutely parallel to the spindle center line. The super sharp cutter definitely reduces any possibility of table flex.
Then there is the (very slim) possibility that one could wind up with an absolutely square and perfectly fitting joint because all of the dull tools, flexing table and bad set up canceled each other out. There is balance in the universe. Screw you Mr. Murphy! (Just don't ever change such a set up or you've had it). :lol:
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Re: facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by LatakiaLover »

sandahlpipe wrote:
But I think the issue is probably sharp tools. A sharp enough tool won't put pressure on the table enough to make it flex.
Huh?

The cutting pressure differential between OK-sharp drill bits and super-sharp ones isn't enough to spring the frame of any drill press short of a Play-Skool plastic toy. With a DP, flex occurs on contact/first cut and it REMAINS for the full depth of the cut. The frame then returns to its original shape the instant downward pressure is released. Any DP so springy that it left significant "light gaps from square" because of flexing wouldn't even be able to drill basic holes in moderately thick materials without jamming/galling/etc because of the center of axis would change significantly when the drill was withdrawn.

Highly unlikely that this is the problem. Even hardware store drill presses are rigid enough for basic home shop tasks.

On the other hand, cheap tools are NEVER straight. Period. No exceptions.
Last edited by LatakiaLover on Fri May 23, 2014 2:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Sasquatch
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Re: facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by Sasquatch »

I... dunno what's going on. Even if the table is off by 5 degrees, if you face the stock and then drill for the delrin, there should be no gapping, period. The whole stem will be crooked, yes, but there shouldn't be a gap. So something else is at play here.

Like, when I make a stem this way, I line it up, but I don't really give a shit if it's exactly 90 degrees because I'm going to face it, tenon it, and drill through that tenon ALL ON THE EXACT SAME AXIS. And now I have an airway with a bunch of crooked rubber on it, but that's just a matter of cutting that crap off. Think inside the stem.
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LittleBill
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Re: facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by LittleBill »

I am thinking runout on a cheesy quill might be more the issue. But that is just a guess.
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andrew
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Re: facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by andrew »

LittleBill wrote:I am thinking runout on a cheesy quill might be more the issue. But that is just a guess.
I've had this problem

andrew
pipedreamer
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Re: facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by pipedreamer »

are you saying after you glue in the rod it shows light at shank stem junction?
pipedreamer
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Re: facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by pipedreamer »

Nice everybody is offline. If that is the case you are making the hole too big for the delrin and it shifts while your glue is drying. A tighter drilling is needed.
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Re: facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by LatakiaLover »

The bottom line for this thread is that producing light-gap-free stem/shank connections using a drill press requires a machine that is straighter, less sloppy, and more rigid than what's found in today's "big box" hardware stores.

Unlike small/cheap lathes which can be tuned, tweaked, & shimmed into decent pipe-making tools, a drill press is inherently unsuited to the task. MASS is the only way to achieve rigidity from a "C" shaped frame, and PRECISION TOLERANCES are the only way to achieve squareness overall, and low quill run-out. Trust me---pro grade mortise & tenon fit requires a well-made 500+ pound 20"+ frame machine. That means old American Iron, or new Swedish stuff. Anything less and you'll just be endlessly chasing your tail.
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Josh B.
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Re: facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by Josh B. »

i think i may need to get a new drill bit. i use one for briar and rodstock. it makes a perfect fit with briar but i can put th eepoxy on the grooved end of the delrin and seat it all the way with a hard push with my thumb... hold on i'm goin to take a picture of what exactly is happening with the stems that may shed more light and give a clearer answer to this.
pipedreamer
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Re: facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by pipedreamer »

Good possibility. When I was using a drill press, right after the big flood, my bit was cheap and was bigger than stated on the drill. Latakia lover is also right my drill press at that time was good, a boat anchor that would hold the Queen Mary. :D
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Re: facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by dogcatcher »

How are you drilling the briar? Drill press? If all of your drilling is on the drill press, seems the errors would compound with the 2 pieces fitting correctly.
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Josh B.
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Re: facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by Josh B. »

srry i didnt post the pictures but here they are
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sandahlpipe
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Re: facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by sandahlpipe »

It looks like you faced your rod stock and moved the table or rod and then lined it up again for the mortise. Make sure you drill the mortise and face the rod stock without moving the workpiece.
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Re: facing and drilling rodstock for delrin

Post by notow1 »

when I use a delrin tenon I glue and insert the tenon in the stem then clean all excess glue and insert into the shank mortise to let everything set up square. Norm.
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