Stainless tenon question

[mredmond]

So, basically you just gave Jeremiah all that shit and then agreed with him and his reasoning? I'm definitely not an expert on pipe making but growing up as a chubby, redheaded, freckle faced kid I do know a thing or twelve about being picked on, and this thread kind of feels like that. Bullshit free, indeed.

I don't need a response. Just food for thought.

[PremalChheda]

I have no idea if word gets back to the makers, but I've had to fix many pencil shanks w/ss sleeves. Especially those lovely and famous little cuttys and cherrywoods with the router-rusticated finish. (That barbershop-pole-style material removal leaves shockingly little in certain spots when viewed in cross section).

Based on what I've seen, if I were a pipe maker I'd sleeve any and all etched/blasted/rusticated pencil shanks as a matter of policy. An irregular outer surface is structurally akin to a scratch on glass.

That would be alot of tubing and no sweet briar for the smoke to travel through. It would definitely make it strong.

[sandahlpipe]

So, basically you just gave Jeremiah all that shit and then agreed with him and his reasoning? I'm definitely not an expert on pipe making but growing up as a chubby, redheaded, freckle faced kid I do know a thing or twelve about being picked on, and this thread kind of feels like that. Bullshit free, indeed.

I don't need a response. Just food for thought.

I think we have an explainable difference of opinion here. The pipe maker rarely makes as many repairs as the repairman. A repairman thus focuses more on how to avoid breakage, where a pipe maker has other priorities at times. Personally, I try to be hard on especially my shop pipes to see what kinds of things break. I don't want George to be stuck fixing my pipes. I am not taking it personally.

[mredmond]

I think it's good you don't take it personally. I hope George doesn't take my comment personally. I think all of the points made were valid. I just don't think that approach is conducive to constructive conversation.

[LatakiaLover]

So, basically you just gave Jeremiah all that shit and then agreed with him and his reasoning? I'm definitely not an expert on pipe making but growing up as a chubby, redheaded, freckle faced kid I do know a thing or twelve about being picked on, and this thread kind of feels like that. Bullshit free, indeed.

You apparently missed this part of the exchange:

If there is some unwritten rule that I have to be an expert to comment on these threads, please forgive me for violating it. I'm really not trying to stir up anything. I'm not an expert, but I've given a lot of thought to the materials and processes of pipe making. If I say something wrong, feel free to correct me. I'd be surprised if I'm the only one that thinks what I'm saying. In a classroom situation, students learn as much from right answers as they do from wrong ones. I'm here to learn and I don't take offense at being told my answer is wrong.

The problem with this ^^^^ approach is that it relies upon the labor of others for the wash to come out clean. Those who actually have the answers are forced to decide whether to let your wrong guesses pass, thus adding to the pool of misinformation in the PipeWorld, or drop what they are doing to set things straight.

The dynamic sandahl brought into play was the issue, not his intentions or (necessarily) his conclusions. After a couple of months, it seemed time to bring it to his attention. In my book, that's the very definition of "bullshit free."

Please re-read the thread in its entirety with as little input from the picked on, chubby, redheaded, freckle faced kid as possible, and I think you'll see the exchange differently.

[LatakiaLover]

I think all of the points made were valid. I just don't think that approach is conducive to constructive conversation.

I guess that boils down to different personality types communicating differently.

If measured by results, though, it would be hard to argue that achieving agreement and understanding all round with no hurt feelings wasn't "constructive."

[LatakiaLover]

That would be alot of tubing and no sweet briar for the smoke to travel through. It would definitely make it strong.

The "smoke that doesn't touch wood must be diminished in some way" feeling, as intuitive as it is, doesn't hold empirically.

Everyone I've talked to who has smoked a sleeved pipe---including Greg Pease, who has world-class olfactory & tasting apparatus in his head---has been surprised. SS neither adds nor takes away. It simply transports smoke.

Add the easy-to-clean and strength attributes, and using it is a non-issue.

[mredmond]

George, I did read it in it's entirety, and my comment on being picked on wasn't a bearing of insecurities, it was a statement of experience before stating my observation. Which is to say, just like you know a well made pipe when you see one, I know when somebody is being a bit of a bully when I see one. If we're bringing things to people's attention maybe it's time to bring to your attention that you regularly inject a combative tone into threads and that you talk like most of us know next to nothing about pipes. For what it's worth I think you bring a lot of great knowledge and experience to the table and I greatly appreciated the critique you gave me at Premal's back in March. I realize I kind of started it but I'd rather not discuss it anymore as I don't enjoy confrontation, and honestly I don't see this going anywhere good and I'd rather not foster animosity.

[LatakiaLover]

Micah,

It boils down to style vs. substance. I much prefer the latter, many people prefer the former.

In fact, "preference" is too weak a word. "Hard wired" describes the dichotomy much better, I think.

And as the old saying goes, "N'er the twain shall meet." Everyone is subjected daily to others who drive them crazy and/or piss them off, somehow, and it's as true on this board as in any other cross section of humanity.

The way I deal with it---as in, always, without exception---is to remember this:

Among honorable men, intent is everything.

Peace, bro.

[mredmond]

I agree, intention is very important. Unfortunately, it's the hardest thing to communicate in a text based environment. Understand, my intentions were/are not antagonistic, and I readily offer apologies if I misunderstood yours.

[sandahlpipe]

Everyone is subjected daily to others who drive them crazy and/or piss them off, somehow, and it's as true on this board as in any other cross section of humanity.

When lots of people tick you off, check your shoulder for chips...

[PremalChheda]

That would be alot of tubing and no sweet briar for the smoke to travel through. It would definitely make it strong.

The "smoke that doesn't touch wood must be diminished in some way" feeling, as intuitive as it is, doesn't hold empirically.

Everyone I've talked to who has smoked a sleeved pipe---including Greg Pease, who has world-class olfactory & tasting apparatus in his head---has been surprised. SS neither adds nor takes away. It simply transports smoke.

Add the easy-to-clean and strength attributes, and using it is a non-issue.

I am not saying that the smoke is diminished by having ss tube instead of briar for the smoke to travel through, however there definitely will be more moisture that builds up with ss tubing instead of it being absorbed by briar, leading to more frequent use of pipe cleaners while smoking. This is my experience not from ss tube, but from smoking longshanks vs. short shanks, where the longshanks tend to a longer period of use without having to use a pipe cleaner. So if by chance ss tubing has mystical moisture absorbing properties, I am wrong.

[LatakiaLover]

I am not saying that the smoke is diminished by having ss tube instead of briar for the smoke to travel through, however there definitely will be more moisture that builds up with ss tubing instead of it being absorbed by briar, leading to more frequent use of pipe cleaners while smoking. This is my experience not from ss tube, but from smoking longshanks vs. short shanks, where the longshanks tend to a longer period of use without having to use a pipe cleaner. So if by chance ss tubing has mystical moisture absorbing properties, I am wrong.

Needing cleaners during smoking seems to be heavily dependent on the type of tobacco being smoked + smoking style. I literally never use any, most people apparently use a few.

I guess ANY sort of slick and non-absorbent shank or stem would be a problem for the heavy use guys. (Aluminum pipes, Dunhill innertube pipes, Duke and Don designs, etc.)

As for ss sleeves in particular, I stay in contact with many of my customers, and haven't had anyone mention increased wetness in their feedback.

[LatakiaLover]

Everyone is subjected daily to others who drive them crazy and/or piss them off, somehow, and it's as true on this board as in any other cross section of humanity.

When lots of people tick you off, check your shoulder for chips...

You say repeatedly that you don't want confrontation or strife, then this.

I give up. You win.

[sandahlpipe]

Aw, c'mon, George. Laugh!

[Alden]

If we're bringing things to people's attention.

If we're bringing things to peoples attention, I want Premal to know it's NOT alright to pat me on the ass after a show and say "Good game, big'un".

[Nate]

If we're bringing things to people's attention.

If we're bringing things to peoples attention, I want Premal to know it's NOT alright to pat me on the ass after a show and say "Good game, big'un".

Sorry Ryan, won't happen again big'u....I mean....um, Ryan. And I guess that means it's not ok to brush Micah's lush beard. I suppose that also applies to Thomas James' hair too huh?

[Alden]

Nate, you're alright. But Premal does it all creepy.
And by all means, please DO brush Micah and Thomas. My arm gets tired.

[mredmond]

I think I might have to start shaving again.

[LatakiaLover]

Micah,

I waited a day to respond so that nothing I said would be dismissed as rash or unconsidered.

The approach I took to address Sandahl's enthusiasm in answering every question put to the board, which put the more experienced people constantly on the spot to qualify, correct, etc. what he said, was to "drill into" how he'd come by his information, so he'd begin to realize for himself---as opposed to merely being told---that he often was just passing on something he'd heard or read.

That was it. No "bullying," and deliberately chosen to make the process as impersonal as possible. Let the facts (or lack thereof) do the talking.

It worked exactly as intended, too. After several exchanges clarity was achieved, Sandahl and I understood each other, no one felt insulted (or "disrespected" in UrbanSpeak), and it was on to the next thread.

Or so I thought.

Only then was any sort of personal stuff injected into the situation, and it was you who who did it, drawing upon, "I was bullied as a child!" as the source of your powers of situational recognition and psychoanalysis.

Both conclusions were completely wrong and entirely unfounded, by the way (you do not know me, young man, and if you did you'd never suggest such a thing).

When every claim of "not wanting to start something" was followed with a stinger comment designed to do exactly that, though, I realized:

1) The bullying you suffered left scars you should tend to

and

2) My 24 years of forum participation (in the pre-www era there was something called UseNet) are at an end. My patience with the medium has run out.

So, with that, I wish you all the best. Enjoy your travels and adventures in the PipeWorld.

(Board, that applies to you, too.)

George