PITH 2016!!!!!!

[seamonster]

Adding to what Nicholas said,
One of the reasons brass is the metal of choice is that it is hard enough that one can cut teeth in the end and have them hold up long enough to get the groove cut. The groove needs to be cut slowly to keep the heat down. Remember that the tube needs to be removed after cutting the groove in order to apply epoxy to hold it back in place. If things get to hot in the cutting process there may be issues in getting the ring back in place after the wood and metal have cooled. Or, conversely, the ring may just fall into place and you'll wind up with gaposis. Due to manufacturing tolerances in the process of making the tubing, variations between lots and variations between manufacturers I think you'll open a can of worms trying cut with one tube and then try to install something else that was not used to cut. The planets may align once but can you repeat it?
I don't have any tables of hardness data at my fingertips but most likely there are grades of aluminum that are hard enough to do the job.
As Premal is fond of saying: "TIAFO".

So, I found some aluminum that is B75 on the rockwell, compared to the brass tube I have which is B77. I'm not super familiar with this scale, but that seems pretty close. I ordered some, and will test it out. Thanks guys, for your input.

Jeremy.

[Ratimus]

Where does your ebonite fall on the Janka hardness scale?

[seamonster]

Where does your ebonite fall on the Janka hardness scale?

holy mackerel, I've no idea!
follow up questions:
1. what is the Janka hardness scale?
2. how can I find out the measure of my ebonite? is it listed? is there a test?
3. I'm assuming that your saying is that if the hardness of the ring is less than the hardness of the stem material there is potential of the ring breaking? isn't force a consideration here?

sent from my blah-dee-blah, using hooty-hoo

[oklahoma red]

Where does your ebonite fall on the Janka hardness scale?

holy mackerel, I've no idea!
follow up questions:
1. what is the Janka hardness scale?
2. how can I find out the measure of my ebonite? is it listed? is there a test?
3. I'm assuming that your saying is that if the hardness of the ring is less than the hardness of the stem material there is potential of the ring breaking? isn't force a consideration here?

sent from my blah-dee-blah, using hooty-hoo

Hmmm, lost me on this one. I'm not seeing why the hardness of the ebonite is a factor here. Other than being decorative the purpose of the ring is solely for reinforcement. The tapered tenon is acting like a wedge and the ring is there to keep the end of the shank from potentially splitting. There is briar in between the ID of the ring and the mortise. The stem tenon has no contact with the tube. Ergo, I fail to see how the hardness of the ebonite plays into the scheme of a military mount. Now, if I've taken the question out of context--my apologies.

[seamonster]

Where does your ebonite fall on the Janka hardness scale?

holy mackerel, I've no idea!
follow up questions:
1. what is the Janka hardness scale?
2. how can I find out the measure of my ebonite? is it listed? is there a test?
3. I'm assuming that your saying is that if the hardness of the ring is less than the hardness of the stem material there is potential of the ring breaking? isn't force a consideration here?

sent from my blah-dee-blah, using hooty-hoo

Hmmm, lost me on this one. I'm not seeing why the hardness of the ebonite is a factor here. Other than being decorative the purpose of the ring is solely for reinforcement. The tapered tenon is acting like a wedge and the ring is there to keep the end of the shank from potentially splitting. There is briar in between the ID of the ring and the mortise. The stem tenon has no contact with the tube. Ergo, I fail to see how the hardness of the ebonite plays into the scheme of a military mount. Now, if I've taken the question out of context--my apologies.

I was thinking that too. Also, a quick google says that the Janka Scale measures the hardness of wood.... so I guess my vulcanized rubber doesn't register.....
Interestingly, the Janka Hardness Scale measure the force required to embed a 11.28 mm (.444 in) steel ball into wood to half the ball's diameter. Cool, and sorta random.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test

[Ratimus]

It was supposed to be a dumb joke, but I blew it. I should have asked about the shore-D hardness, not the janka hardness (do a search for shore-d and ebonite of you don't know what I'm talking about). Just an attempt to appear to fit in with a group by citing an inside joke, but it blew up in my face. Oh well.

[oklahoma red]

It was supposed to be a dumb joke, but I blew it. I should have asked about the shore-D hardness, not the janka hardness (do a search for shore-d and ebonite of you don't know what I'm talking about). Just an attempt to appear to fit in with a group by citing an inside joke, but it blew up in my face. Oh well.

No harm, no foul Ratman. I've found that attempts at arcane humor around here usually slide by or start a shit storm. You gotta be "inna you f***ing face" like Sas to make your point.
We love you anyway Sas.
Blame it on the internet or better yet take the Damnocrat's low road and blame everything on Bush.

[seamonster]

It was supposed to be a dumb joke, but I blew it. I should have asked about the shore-D hardness, not the janka hardness (do a search for shore-d and ebonite of you don't know what I'm talking about). Just an attempt to appear to fit in with a group by citing an inside joke, but it blew up in my face. Oh well.

Yup, that one definitely splatted on the wall way way over my head. BUT, that's not your foul, instead, my ignorance.

word.

[calsbeek]

Its been several weeks since i posted this and so I thought I'd repost in the hope for clarity. cheers:

----------------
I'm beginning to think that I don't know what a military mount is.

does it have a tenon at all? Or is it just a tapered rod that fits into a shank that has metal reinforcement?
and if the latter, does it need the brass ring inside the shank as well as the cap outside? just one?
can someone clarify EXACTLY what we're making here?

and I'm super sorry for such a naive start to this PITH

[Jthompson1995]

Its been several weeks since i posted this and so I thought I'd repost in the hope for clarity. cheers:

----------------
I'm beginning to think that I don't know what a military mount is.

does it have a tenon at all? Or is it just a tapered rod that fits into a shank that has metal reinforcement?
and if the latter, does it need the brass ring inside the shank as well as the cap outside? just one?
can someone clarify EXACTLY what we're making here?

and I'm super sorry for such a naive start to this PITH

I'll try to explain my understanding, though I have yet to make a military mount pipe.

In essence, the defining characteristic of the military mount is the tapered "tenon" on the stem. I say "tenon" in quotes because the tenon is usually an extension of the stem instead of having a stepped shoulder that fits against the face of the shank. Ideally, this tenon is fit into a mortise with a matching taper so plenty of surface contact provides the needed friction to hold the pieces together. That being said, I just bought an estate kaywoodie that is basically a Peterson clone that the mortise has parallel walls and does not match the taper of the tenon. The fit is still secure but it is only touching at one point along the tenon, not the entire length.

As to the reinforcement, you are basically making a wedge with the tapered tenon that, if pushed hard into the mortise, will push outward on the walls of he mortise and could crack the shank. The metal ring around the mortise or the metal cap on the shank provide the support needed to stand up to this force. Only one or the other type of reinforcement should be needed, not both. I have seen pipes made with an acrylic shank cap and no metal reinforcement but would be hesitant to do so with my experiences with acrylics and the like.

Hope this helps clear things up a bit.

[mightysmurf8201]

Its been several weeks since i posted this and so I thought I'd repost in the hope for clarity. cheers:

----------------
I'm beginning to think that I don't know what a military mount is.

does it have a tenon at all? Or is it just a tapered rod that fits into a shank that has metal reinforcement?
and if the latter, does it need the brass ring inside the shank as well as the cap outside? just one?
can someone clarify EXACTLY what we're making here?

and I'm super sorry for such a naive start to this PITH

I'm not good with words, so here's a good example in picture form of a military mount done with a brass ring. As you can see, a shank cap is not needed when done this way as the brass ring serves as the reinforcement so the shank doesn't split. The stem just gets lightly wedged into the mortise and the friction holds it in place. This is a James Gilliam piece. Hope you don't mind, James.

[calsbeek]

awesome. This helps mucho.
cheers!

[jogilli]

no problems... thanks for using the one I made for a 9mm filter...

james

[calsbeek]

would anyone be willing to share their military bits for this? I'd be happy to pay shipping both ways (to and from VT).
cheers
ryan

[PremalChheda]

would anyone be willing to share their military bits for this? I'd be happy to pay shipping both ways (to and from VT).
cheers
ryan

How far from Vermont Freehand do you live? Maybe you could talk to Steve to arrange a visit.

[mightysmurf8201]

Just checking in. How is everyone coming with their pipes? Any issues, hiccups, problems you need help solving? I personally haven't quite started mine, but I have the design ready and block picked out. I just need to get started on it.

[Jthompson1995]

I'm pretty much at the same point as you. I'll get going in earnest after the Chicago show.

[calsbeek]

currently paralyzed by the fear of having to send to Oakbear and getting to receive from Ocelot55. Two pipe makers way out of my league.

[Billy Klubb]

I know I have no room to say this, but y'all need to get on it! I'm very excited to see what art I have to aspire to.

[kamkiel]

I suppose its going as planned. I've tried some different materials to reinforce the mortise: acrylic, bone, copper ring, and brass ring. I have had some trouble getting the brass ring centered around the mortise. I think its because the tubing I bought might be to thin and it jumps around easier when drilling the spot for the ring. I really life like how the plain old copper looks as is. Are there any reasons I shouldn't use copper?

In other news, I should be in America in July. So if anybody has to send their pipe to me, you wont have to ship it to China!

Kiel