Another inciteful question for Sparkle Markle's amusement

[LatakiaLover]

Distinguishing Accomplishment From Adulation

There's a significant trend-driven tribal dynamic in the pipe collecting world, and it has gotten more pronounced with the introduction of social networking. Pronounced enough to attract a new type of personality to the making of pipes: those who want to be "famous" for its own sake as much as for the pipes they make. (It's similar to the elevation of cooking---the chef's profession---from "out of sight out of mind" anonymity to Rock Star status over the past decade. All kinds of people who would have never given cooking a second thought a generation ago are now flocking to it in droves.)

In and of itself that's good---pipes, pipe smoking, and good food all deserve to be more widely celebrated and appreciated---but it DOES affect the public's (at least the enthusiast's) PERCEPTION of an artisan/craftsman's work output for tribal reasons. Sometimes dramatically.

So there is no misunderstanding, the tribalism I'm referring to is the most general kind: Behavior and attitudes that stem from strong loyalty to one's own tribe or social group.

It is vitally important that this sea change be discussed here on PMF. Ernie's mental health depends on it. (He responds to boredom like a house cat. Long periods of depression and low energy punctuated by 60-second bursts of leaping around in circles and bouncing off the walls and furniture while making yowly hissing noises.)

[The Smoking Yeti]

Hmm. Can you give an example scenario? Be it made up or real, I think I know what you're getting at, but I just want clarity before I get offended!

[LatakiaLover]

Hmm. Can you give an example scenario? Be it made up or real, I think I know what you're getting at, but I just want clarity before I get offended!

Sure.

In competition cooking among famous-name Rock Star chefs, judges are inclined to favor the creations of the one who "stayed the most true to his roots," or "made a clear statement" even if the dish didn't taste very good.

By my lights, that's pretty silly. When it comes to food, tasting good MUST come first for anything else to matter. "Artistic vision" and power of personality count for nothing on a plate, but if the tribal mindset of the month is "molecular gastronomy is the coolest thing ever!", that's what will win.

The problem is, next year the same dish will get you booed and shunned for being un-hip because the tribe has moved on to something else.

[The Smoking Yeti]

Can I get a pipe world example?

[LatakiaLover]

If what I've said so far hasn't made sense, there isn't much point. Either I suck at describing things, or no one wants to discuss the subject.

Oh well.

Ernie & Tyler, I tried!

[kamkiel]

Around one year ago when i was back home for the holiday i discovered my really good friend was making pipes. I brought a few pipes back that he had given me from his collection as well as some corn cobs and tobacco. I started playing with making pipes almost immediately after my return back. It was this tribal connection that got me into it, but i also think that if my had picked up the study of molecular whatever science I wouldnt have joined in. Cooking (and eating), smoking, even making music are all very social things imho, and i think they are all very enjoyable social activities. The skills that are learned are constantly being refined and adapted.

Beside this forum, i am quite ignorant to the pipe world and its community, but i still feel like i am a part of it. This tribalism has served me well. Even if i stopped making pipes (or cooking, making music, etc.) It is a skill that I delved into and can dust off at anytime in the future.

I am still trying to wrap my mind about the rockstar thing. Is it a lack of so called tribalism that is fueling the rockstars?But i dont gt what it exactly is. A marketing tactic? A chance to be an authority or trend setter?

Kiel

PS Sorry if I wrote something that doesnt make any sense. It is early morning here and I havent finished my coffee.

[The Smoking Yeti]

When you refer to the Rockstar/ tribe mentality, are you referring to certain groups who blindly worship a given maker as the second coming itself, and whatever said maker thinks is law to them? Thus sprouting a whole new sect of pipemakers who're blind to the pipe world at large, and appear to be forming there own little pipemaking universe in which they are all kings of their own little Island thanks to Instagram?

[LatakiaLover]

When you refer to the Rockstar/ tribe mentality, are you referring to certain groups who blindly worship a given maker as the second coming itself, and whatever said maker thinks is law to them? Thus sprouting a whole new sect of pipemakers who're blind to the pipe world at large, and appear to be forming there own little pipemaking universe in which they are all kings of their own little Island thanks to Instagram?

You overstated the reality, but in terms of dynamics that's it.

There's nothing to be DONE about it, of course---electric motors killed off steam engines---it's just how things are in the 21st century, and they're likely to stay that way for a long time. (Until the Net came along, all but a handful of pipe makers on the planet were anonymous, and even those few were hardly household names.)

The joker in the deck is that the possibility of public recognition can be appealing to a personality type who is quite different than the Old World(ish) artisans and craftsmen who entered the PipeWorld before, when there was no fame to be had. And that, in turn, poses the question of distinguishing between accomplishment and adulation.

I thought the board might want to kick around the many ramifications of that, is all, since it is still evolving/developing.

[W.Pastuch]

It's certainly a big change in how pipemakers are perceived by their potential clients- the more "likes", "shares" and comments, the better the pipe.
But a friend once told me a very funny and true phrase: being famous on the internet is like being rich in Monopoly.

[RobEsArt]

Is this a discussion about mental attitudes/personality types that shoe horn a sense of fuckery into an established area of practice, simply for the sake of acquiring fame and fortune, with or without a conscious mind to what this activity is doing to the whole?
Because in the artworld arena... Andy Warhol is king. (Marcel DuChamp may hold the title of starting this nonsense, but Warhol carried it to new heights.)

Notoriety of "actual" accomplishment is acceptable and appropriate. These are the folks, the beacons, that shed light into the darkness of ignorance.

The notoriety of self aggrandizement through "clever" tactics captivates and perpetuates an ignorant society.

Then we could introduce and discuss elitism...

Just some thoughts

[NathanA]

It's certainly a big change in how pipemakers are perceived by their potential clients- the more "likes", "shares" and comments, the better the pipe.
But a friend once told me a very funny and true phrase: being famous on the internet is like being rich in Monopoly.

Perfect Answer.

I think the internet has been and will continue to be a significant boon to the hobby and we should all be thankful for it. I have had the privilege to make pipes for people this year that I would never have met in any other way. But as with any good thing there is always a downside and that is clearly demonstrated in the number of pipes ranging from so-so to downright awful that get a lot of attention.

[Joe Hinkle Pipes]

I havent seen the rockstar mentally in pipe makers as much as i have in pipe PRESENTERS. Its strange to me really that people are so interested in following the adventures of a person that in all practical terms does nothing but consume pipes/tobacco and produces nothing but videos and post of them talking/smoking. Odd to me, but to each his own. I think a lot of the feeling of the rockstar attempt is just self promotion by the pipemaker. Im all for self promotion, and will be making a big push at the beginning of the year to get my "brand" out, but you will rarely, if ever, see photos of my ugly mug, and especially not a selfie update every 20 minutes throughout the day.

[Thomas Tkach]

being famous on the internet is like being rich in Monopoly.

This quote is gold. You win the interwebz, which apparently aren't that valuable.

Regarding pipe presenters, the YouTube Pipe Community is interesting. Some people use it as a forum/social network, except with videos instead of typed posts. I think this is very understandable since many of us don't know other pipesmokers in person, or at least none that are as into the hobby as most of us are. Others are more professional/authoritative in the way they post (or at least try to be), and put a lot of effort into videos. I guess these are the rockstars. I am astounded that the mostly silly videos I post are so widely consumed, but I have fun doing them. It also doesn't hurt that I've been given several hundred dollars worth of tobacco to review in these videos.

I think a lot of the 'Indie' pipemakers do really well there, though. I see the pipes some people post that are very amateurish, but if they have a weird colored stem everybody goes bonkers and loves it. Is the Devil Anse the it shape right now, LL? I think they can be well done, but on Facebook and Youtube I see all kinds of ugly pipes called a Devil Anse that have no real resemblance other than a severely canted bowl. If people love them and eat them up, more power to the makers, but I won't be paying the same price I can get a pipe from some of the fine up-and-coming makers on here for an 'Indie' pipe uglier than a $60 Stanwell.

[Tyler]

I aspire to be the Paris Hilton of pipe making.

I win.

[socrates]

I can't speak as a competent pipe maker nor do I have a "tribal" tendency to make them to become famous. I do want to be able to make something I wouldn't be embarrassed to smoke in public. I have seen what LatakiaLover is speaking of in various creative endeavors. The idea of becoming famous is the motivating factor instead of learning what it is and how to accomplish it better than the average craftsmen. I reckon it's just human nature.

Sent from my HTC0P3P7 using Tapatalk

[LatakiaLover]

I aspire to be the Paris Hilton of pipe making.

I win.

Maybe not. D'Huber aspires to be the Beyoncé of pipe making. (Bonnie told me)

[d.huber]

I aspire to be the Paris Hilton of pipe making.

I win.

Maybe not. D'Huber aspires to be the Beyoncé of pipe making. (Bonnie told me)

Beyonce ain't got nothin on me.

http://youtu.be/hicQmjlwcuU

[Tyler]

I aspire to be the Paris Hilton of pipe making.

I win.

Maybe not. D'Huber aspires to be the Beyoncé of pipe making. (Bonnie told me)

Beyonce ain't got nothin on me.

http://youtu.be/hicQmjlwcuU

Beyoncé has to actually DO stuff for her adulation. Paris is more pure: adulation for adulation sake; adulation accumulation as art; life as art.

I still win.

[pipedreamer]

I"m Old School, but still Rock. I would hate to be famous, no one leaves you alone , can't go anywhere, people you don"t know are mad at you! After a time you end up hiding and avoiding contact.Tyler, Don"t uncross your legs. Remember: Old men never get the job. Why?Because the person interviewing asks,"What"s your best quality? The Old Man replies "Honesty" The interviewer says"That"s good!" The Old Man says" I Don"t give a shit"!

[d.huber]

Beyoncé has to actually DO stuff for her adulation. Paris is more pure: adulation for adulation sake; adulation accumulation as art; life as art.

I still win.

Are you sure Paris actually receives adulation from anyone else besides herself? Most people I know have a subtle... distaste for her.

Whereas I don't know anyone who dislikes Beyonce. *snap*