Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

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LatakiaLover
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Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by LatakiaLover »

...attached to small-ish, lightweight "smoking machine sized" stummels that were well finished and conservatively imaginative in design---not brilliant, but ranging from better than most to quite good---and priced at the LOW end of the artisan spectrum, i.e. $275 to $350.

Such pipes would fly off a table in Chicago, right? Gone before noon Saturday, and etc.

Nope. Not even a little. One might have been reserved, but I don't think ANY were sold as of 5:00pm Sunday when I left.

The maker? Kent Joyce from Oklahoma. A new guy, so not a "name" in the PipeWorld.

Let me emphasize something for clarity: I spent a number of early morning hours at the show inspecting the private purchases of several multimillionaire uber-collectors---breathtaking AAAAA specimens made by legendary carvers that most people don't even realize exist, never mind see or get a shot at buying (they routinely sell for upper four to low/mid five figures)---and Kent's stem work matched or slightly exceeded every one of them.

And, again, his overall designs, while not head-turning were more than capably rendered---technically excellent, precise, crisp, well-finished, etc.---and notably good for the price.

WTF is going on here? Is there really that much of a personality cult / showmanship dynamic in play these days? (Kent is extremely humble and soft-spoken. Almost shy.)

I was actually embarrassed by our hobby on his behalf. The man did his part and then some, let his work speak for itself, and was completely ignored.
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notow1
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Re: Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by notow1 »

George, I really believe People go to the show thinking They want to buy a $600.00 or more pipe. They won't even look at an inexpensive pipe, Norm.
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sandahlpipe
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Re: Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by sandahlpipe »

I've been thinking for a long time that quality alone cannot sell. I, too saw Kent's work and got to know him. I think part of what sells a pipe at a show is what comes with the pipe. A story, a cool accessory, a name, a style, or a personality to name a few. First-timers to a show have an uphill battle to face in order to get their name out there and establish some recognition. After 4 shows, I was still getting people who asked if this was my first show. And I'm pretty outgoing.

For what it's worth, I agree that Kent's work was magnificent and very reasonably priced. Perhaps even underpriced, which can occasionally cause the millionaire collectors to overlook the pipe in favor of something that appears to be more valuable due to the price.
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Sasquatch
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Re: Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by Sasquatch »

Part of the issue is that there's SOOO many pipes at that show.

I buy Castellos, I love smoking them. Kent could have brought ANYthing to the show, I was going to buy a Castello.

I sold lots of pipes at the show. Off the show floor? None. A few chicks liked the sewing on the Sqautch-skin socks.

Kent is new, he needs to be around a bit longer so people recognize his name.

A retail outlet like Smoker's Haven might be a good option if Kent is not a "hey look at me" guy. I have my patter honed on the pipe forums and facebook, I'm the friendly neighborhood pipe know-it-all. And I make 'em too. Ask and ye shall receive kinda thing. Kent has as of yet no real identity out there.

So yeah, it's stupid and sad. Making a good pipe doesn't make anyone want it, there has to be "branding" of some kind behind it. On the other hand, lots of guys are doing TONS of branding and making (or just selling) kinda crappy pipes, and finding a sort of hard go of that too.

An old pipe repair guy once told me on the phone just to keep at it, just keep putting pipes out there, best I could, sell them reasonable, build up a reputation, listen to my customers if they had feedback. That's the secret to overnight success - five years of hard work.
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Massis
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Re: Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by Massis »

Sasquatch wrote:
A retail outlet like Smoker's Haven might be a good option if Kent is not a "hey look at me" guy. I have my patter honed on the pipe forums and facebook, I'm the friendly neighborhood pipe know-it-all. And I make 'em too. Ask and ye shall receive kinda thing. Kent has as of yet no real identity out there.
https://www.smokershaven.com/new-pipes/c-kent-joyce/

You were saying?
I'd never heard of Kent Joyce before, but those are some pretty darn nice pipes indeed, especially for those prices!
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WCannoy
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Re: Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by WCannoy »

I had the "Steak vs. Sizzle" conversation many times over the weekend. Some guys are selling the steak, some guys are selling the sizzle. These days you need to do both, because, apparently, the good steaks don't sizzle themselves!

Kent has the steak, now he needs the sizzle.
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Re: Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by Charl »

Well said, Walt.
Sizzle is difficult.
caskwith
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Re: Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by caskwith »

I am still waiting for the sizzle lol.
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Joe Hinkle Pipes
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Re: Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by Joe Hinkle Pipes »

I met Kent at the Pre-show friday morning. i had looked at his pipes online before, so i kind of knew what to expect. As George said, they aren't mind blowingly amazing museum pieces, but they are very well executed,even great pipes, especially for the length of time he has been making pipes. He and I are both lacking the personality to go out, put our pipes in peoples's faces, toot our own horns a bit, and try to convince people that they need to buy them. Having very little name or "brand" recognition and a reserved personality doesn't generally cut it anymore. The International retailers/collectors should have been all over him. I heard that they bought out some very new pipe makers before the show even started. I noticed at the Briar Lab table they would look at the name on the sign, and if it wasn't recognized they wouldn't even pick up a pipe. I have a feeling that they were told specifically by other pipemakers that pipemaker X was the next big thing, or whatever. (insert whatever hype phrase you want.) He will have his time in the sun though. At some point some mega collector will be tipped off to his pipes and buy one. He will sing his praises from the rooftops of smoking tents and online forums, it just takes time. I have to believe this just for my own mental health.
LatakiaLover
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Re: Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by LatakiaLover »

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I was truly frustrated by the situation. I think I "get it" a bit better now, though, as massively illogical as it is.

Result? After reading this:
Joe Hinkle Pipes wrote: At some point some mega collector will be tipped off to his pipes...
...I decided to do exactly that. Just a minute ago.

8)

Now, we wait.
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Joe Hinkle Pipes
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Re: Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by Joe Hinkle Pipes »

I knew there was a reason I liked you george. That's the pipe community in a nutshell. The last thing you need is another pipe laying around the house. But that isn't the really the point is it? Congrats sir. And thank you.
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Re: Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by e Markle »

For the number of pipes he's made, Kent's work is very good. Greg Pease was showed me a pipe he bought from Kent at last year's KC show.

I certainly understand the frustration expressed here, but I think there's another component and that is simply trust. Collectors want a lot of things, but a big part of that is buying from a "reputable" maker who has a track record of standing by their work, producing pipes that smoke well, engaging customers in a meaningful way, etc. There were four makers in Chicago that I thought were priced too low when considering their work alone, but the truth is that part of what collectors want is that trust factor (reputation, reliability, whatever you want to call it). That simply takes time, exposure and effort. I'm sure with more shows and interaction with collectors, Kent's work will be more widely acknowledged -- it just takes time.
LatakiaLover
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Re: Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by LatakiaLover »

e Markle wrote:For the number of pipes he's made, Kent's work is very good. Greg Pease showed me a pipe he bought from Kent at last year's KC show.
I remember it. A small blowfish with a delicate keel-ridge that swooped tastefully up the shank and around the bowl. Greg looked at it for less than a minute and bought it on the spot.
I certainly understand the frustration expressed here, but I think there's another component and that is simply trust.
Another way of saying reputation, pretty much. I agree. More important than ever with so many new carvers coming online the past couple years.

Again, thanks for the input, guys. I don't have the same vantage point you do.
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Charl
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Re: Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by Charl »

Time is irrelevant in my case.
Contacts, exposure, shows are.
But that's me.
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Re: Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by pipeguy »

Maybe people are too busy hob hob nobbing and inspecting mid four to HI five figure pipes
Which has always raised the question for me that are people going to the show to see pipes or going to be seen
Seeing pipes. Making pipes for people you wouldn't invite to your home for dinner is no way to go through life. :?:
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Joe Hinkle Pipes
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Re: Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by Joe Hinkle Pipes »

Charl wrote:Time is irrelevant in my case.
Contacts, exposure, shows are.
But that's me.
true! People have short memories. A collector friend of mine said he was thinking about getting rid of a pipe by pipemaker X. Pipemaker X recently stopped making pipes, so i told him if he really feels like selling the pipe the time is now. Don't wait. Everyone know he isnt making pipes and wants one for their collection. 8 months from now no one will remember that he ever made pipes. There are a lot of guys making pipes now generating huge amounts of buzz on the internet. If you aren't generating buzz yourself you may be loosing sales to the guys that do. there is a fascination with all things YOUtube and periscope, and whatever else the kids are doing. You can almost become a star over night. You just need the uniform.
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Ratimus
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Re: Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by Ratimus »

Thus thread is so depressing. I sent seven pipes to Chicago; didn't sell a single one. Maybe there is a glimmer of hope that I can't sell my pipes because I'm not famous and not just because I suck so bad. Or maybe that just compounds the problem.
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Joe Hinkle Pipes
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Re: Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by Joe Hinkle Pipes »

its tough to sell pipes when you aren't at the show. my sales percentage drops drastically if I don't attend. down to the 0% range. People want to meet you and get the warm fuzzies before they buy, especially if you are relatively new. at least in my experience.
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Sasquatch
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Re: Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by Sasquatch »

Let me reverse this: Here's a single big long table and on it are 10,000 pipes. I mean it. 10,000.

Your pipes are on there somewhere. And the crowds are walking by. Some percentage will by a pipe today.


Let's be hugely generous and say that 1 in 20 pipes at a show sell. That means 500 in this case. I think in reality it's much less.


You (any of you, me, this is not aimed at anyone in particular) really think that out of 500 pipes picked at a show, which represent the top offerings of pipe makers in EVERY single price point, that your pipes are special somehow?

Sorry, but unless you are making something totally unlike everybody else, or if you are making something that is utterly, without a doubt the best in class at it's price point (and LOTS of people know this) there is just no reason for anyone to buy your pipe and not one of the other 9,500 that are not gonna get bought that day.

Don't take it too hard - there's lots of ways to sell pipes. But at the biggest show in the world, without personal representation? It's not likely.
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Joe Hinkle Pipes
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Re: Stem work equal to the best I've ever seen in my life...

Post by Joe Hinkle Pipes »

That is a fairly accurate assessment of the Chicago show Todd. But i also saw some overpriced dog shit getting hard looks, and occasional sales. Its kind of fun to see, in a stomach turning "he isnt actually...? no... HE DID!!??" sorty of way. but that is a fraction of a fraction of a percent.
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