New/Old Stock 2007 Dunhill Christmas Pipes

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Spillproof
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New/Old Stock 2007 Dunhill Christmas Pipes

Post by Spillproof »

Hello all, I have a staining challenge and could use some input.

I do restorations for a local B&M (*I'm also an amateur maker/carver).
A client brought in two New/Old Stock 2007 Christmas Pipes that were badly faded by direct sunlight over a number of years.
The client would like them restained and the stems brought back to life.

I know this may seem obscene, but hey, the client wants what the client wants. All parties understand the inherent risks in such an undertaking, and I have explained that it is not possible to EXACTLY match existing stain (either the good side or the bad side).

One is a Bruyere and the other an Amber Root. Both will need to be lightly sanded to get back to the bottom contrast, restained (likely a bit darker to cover fading) and then get a new topcoat and "finish" (diluted shellac taken back off with Tripoli....shhh!). At least that's what I would ordinarily do.

On the Bruyere I'm thinking just a quick basecoat of black, mostly removed, then a reddish-purple topstain (which I have yet to mix and cannot exactly match to the original). The Amber Root is a bit more challenging as sun fading had discolored whatever the original "first stain/bottom coat" was. I'm thinking a first coat of Dark Walnut with a bit of red added, and a top stain of Buckskin.

So... My question:
If you were going to restain these pipes, what colors would use? Any special "finishing techniques" you can recommend to emulate an "original" Dunhill finish? I have stained LOTS of pipes but never two NOS Xmas Pipes and could use your expertise.

Thanks!

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Last edited by Spillproof on Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sasquatch
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Re: New/Old Stock 2007 Dunhill Christmas Pipes

Post by Sasquatch »

Dave I don't think either of those pipes is contrast stained in the way that you are talking. I can get a very similar effect by sanding, staining with a dark color, maybe oxblood or cordovan for the first pipe, chocolate on the second, then sanding again around 500 and staining with the same color but diluted a lot - sort of a wash coat that evens out the color but highlights the grain definition.

I agree with you - I think the pipes have to be sanded out and started from scratch.

Maybe PM LatakiaLover and see if he's done something like this before. He's done a few refurbs I think. Like, about, 2000000 of em.
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Spillproof
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Re: New/Old Stock 2007 Dunhill Christmas Pipes

Post by Spillproof »

Sasquatch wrote:Dave I don't think either of those pipes is contrast stained in the way that you are talking. I can get a very similar effect by sanding, staining with a dark color, maybe oxblood or cordovan for the first pipe, chocolate on the second, then sanding again around 500 and staining with the same color but diluted a lot - sort of a wash coat that evens out the color but highlights the grain definition.

I agree with you - I think the pipes have to be sanded out and started from scratch.

Maybe PM LatakiaLover and see if he's done something like this before. He's done a few refurbs I think. Like, about, 2000000 of em.
Very much appreciated Sas.
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taharris
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Re: New/Old Stock 2007 Dunhill Christmas Pipes

Post by taharris »

I'm not convinced that you need to sand them at all.

I suggest that you wrap them in a cloth soaked in denatured alcohol and place in a zip-lok bag over night.

Then rub vigorously with a clean cloth.

This will remove any shellack that might be present and expose bare wood for you to stain.

This way you don't run the risk of screwing up the markings on the pipe.

Just my two cents...

Todd
Spillproof
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Re: New/Old Stock 2007 Dunhill Christmas Pipes

Post by Spillproof »

taharris wrote:I'm not convinced that you need to sand them at all.

I suggest that you wrap them in a cloth soaked in denatured alcohol and place in a zip-lok bag over night.

Then rub vigorously with a clean cloth.

This will remove any shellack that might be present and expose bare wood for you to stain.

This way you don't run the risk of screwing up the markings on the pipe.

Just my two cents...

Todd
Great suggestion Todd and I will certainly give this a shot before desecrating the wood ;-)
LatakiaLover
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Re: New/Old Stock 2007 Dunhill Christmas Pipes

Post by LatakiaLover »

This sort of thing gets complicated fast. Exact color matching---meaning undetectable when viewed under different light sources (florescent, incandescent, and sunlight)---is very difficult to do, and can't really be covered in a discussion. Teaching it would take lots of demos, examples, and so forth because most decisions about how to proceed after each step are specimen dependent, and change according to the result of the previous step.

That said, I'd definitely stay away from ideas of sanding enough to get "back to" anything. Soaking to "bleach" the pipe isn't a good idea either, in this case (from what I can see in the pics). When restoring faded, NOS pipes, think in terms of adding, not subtracting. Also, think incremental, not all-at-once.

I can't make specific recommendations without seeing the pipes in the flesh, though. As I said, color-match refinishing is one of those "art as much as science" times, with every specimen being different.
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Spillproof
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Re: New/Old Stock 2007 Dunhill Christmas Pipes

Post by Spillproof »

LatakiaLover wrote:This sort of thing gets complicated fast. Exact color matching---meaning undetectable when viewed under different light sources (florescent, incandescent, and sunlight)---is very difficult to do, and can't really be covered in a discussion. Teaching it would take lots of demos, examples, and so forth because most decisions about how to proceed after each step are specimen dependent, and change according to the result of the previous step.

That said, I'd definitely stay away from ideas of sanding enough to get "back to" anything. Soaking to "bleach" the pipe isn't a good idea either, in this case (from what I can see in the pics). When restoring faded, NOS pipes, think in terms of adding, not subtracting. Also, think incremental, not all-at-once.

I can't make specific recommendations without seeing the pipes in the flesh, though. As I said, color-match refinishing is one of those "art as much as science" times, with every specimen being different.
Thank you for your comments.

I'm a scientist professionally and a pipey sorta "artist' on the side. These pipes will be restained one way or the other, and probably no one will be mad about it.

Probably.
jjpipes
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Re: New/Old Stock 2007 Dunhill Christmas Pipes

Post by jjpipes »

I agree with LatakiaLover especially about adding rather than removing, but I would try one thing first; It's called padding in my world, the processes is simple but difficult to master. you can sometimes rewet the finish without removing it. this works very well for shellac lacier and some waxes, not as easy on varnish, urethane and acrylic. always test a small area first every pipe is different. test with Q-tip but use something larger for the project. dip the Q-tip in the highest proof alcohol you can get 91 or 95 denatured is ok, now gently spin the Q-tip in your fingers until it only damp, so it will not run or drip on the pipe, now stroke it across the pipe in an ark motion NEVER starting or stopping on the surface of the pipe. If you start or stop on the surface It can damage the finish. No results try lacier thinner. If with either you see a haze stop and rub with dry cloth this is most likely the effect of the solvent on the wax. Goodluck If you need more info PM me we can arrange a call.
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Spillproof
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Re: New/Old Stock 2007 Dunhill Christmas Pipes

Post by Spillproof »

jjpipes wrote:I agree with LatakiaLover especially about adding rather than removing, but I would try one thing first; It's called padding in my world, the processes is simple but difficult to master. you can sometimes rewet the finish without removing it. this works very well for shellac lacier and some waxes, not as easy on varnish, urethane and acrylic. always test a small area first every pipe is different. test with Q-tip but use something larger for the project. dip the Q-tip in the highest proof alcohol you can get 91 or 95 denatured is ok, now gently spin the Q-tip in your fingers until it only damp, so it will not run or drip on the pipe, now stroke it across the pipe in an ark motion NEVER starting or stopping on the surface of the pipe. If you start or stop on the surface It can damage the finish. No results try lacier thinner. If with either you see a haze stop and rub with dry cloth this is most likely the effect of the solvent on the wax. Goodluck If you need more info PM me we can arrange a call.
Alright, thank you for the suggestion and the offer to follow up.
I have a few days to ponder this as I have some stuff on order from PIMO and PME.
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Nate
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Re: New/Old Stock 2007 Dunhill Christmas Pipes

Post by Nate »

Dave wanted me to comment, but I have very little to add. I guess you need to figure out what the desired result is? I am seeing (I think) 3 or 4 different thought processes on it. If it were me and the owner wanted them back to original, the look like the color is still there, just enhance it. If you're wanting to do some other finish, then you've read enough on here to know how to do that. As far as my restorations, they were stripped with denatured alcohol down to bare colors, then refinished. I guess I'm not certain what your looking for? :?
Spillproof
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Re: New/Old Stock 2007 Dunhill Christmas Pipes

Post by Spillproof »

Nate wrote:Dave wanted me to comment, but I have very little to add. I guess you need to figure out what the desired result is? I am seeing (I think) 3 or 4 different thought processes on it. If it were me and the owner wanted them back to original, the look like the color is still there, just enhance it. If you're wanting to do some other finish, then you've read enough on here to know how to do that. As far as my restorations, they were stripped with denatured alcohol down to bare colors, then refinished. I guess I'm not certain what your looking for? :?
Thanks Nate.

I was hoping for guidance with colors and I got that from Sasquatch. I oversimplified the way I intended to stain the pipes and used the word "sand" which was likely interpreted as me taking them to a belt sander ;-) (I'm not, really). I have done a lot of restorations, I am borderline OCD, and I take my time about everything I do. I'd like to believe it shows.


I realize I'm a newbie around here and should be assumed to be an idiot until proven otherwise.
I can't promise that any evidence I may provide will assist you in rejecting that null hypothesis.

Those of you that know me... well there's no hope of redemption.

Thank you all for the comments.
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Nate
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Re: New/Old Stock 2007 Dunhill Christmas Pipes

Post by Nate »

Ha! Fair enough Dave. :D I think you have the right approach. Depends on if you want a contrast or just a normal Dunnie finish. I like what Sas wrote about how to accomplish it.
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