Uneven Staining problems

[RiverWader]

I am just starting out and working on a pipe with flawed briar but wanted to finish it smooth anyway just for the experience. I had hoped to apply a darker stain, sand it back and apply a a lighter stain over that. My expectation was that the darker stain would bring out the grain (unspectacular as it was) and create some contrast in the final product. So, I applied a Fiebings Mahogany stain and went to sand back but the result was very splotchy and uneven and did nothing for the grain. After seeing that, I just decided to rusticate which was probably the right direction anyway.

It reminded me of the result you get when you try and stain a soft wood like pine. For that, there are pre-treatments that help to solve the problem. My experience with briar is one previous kit pipe which acted much more like I expected. My preparation was simply shaping the pipe and going through a succession of finer sandpapers down to 600 grit. Cleaned it up and applied the stain.

Am I just seeing the natural variances in the wood or should I have prepared differently somehow?

Thanks for your help. I'd have been really disappointed if this had happened on something I had higher expectations for.

-Pat

[baweaverpipes]

You should have prepared it differently.
As Rod Davies would say: "Hope this helps".

[Sasquatch]

Without pictures, I can't offer a direct solution. I'm guessing sanding, and thoroughness down around 220 is probably the issue.

[RiverWader]

Thanks Bruce (I think ) and Sas. Unfortunately I didn't take any pics prior to moving on although I did see that some of the unevenness was caused by sanding issues but thought the issues were bigger than just that. I have seen some talk of heating and flaming and that may be a next step.

-Pat

P.S. Rod Davies the rugby guy?

[baweaverpipes]

There is a wealth of information on this subject. Search and you'll find many postings on this subject, as with many other questions you might have. There's a scad of info to be had.

Sand to 400, then stain your undercoat.
Then you can sand with either 400 or 600 to remove a majority of the undercoat. Wipe the pipe and sandpaper frequently while doing this process.
The easy way to apply the contrast stain is to apply the stain with shellac. One swipe! Don't do more than one swipe or you will cause the under-stain to bleed.

[Sasquatch]

Thanks Bruce (I think ) and Sas. Unfortunately I didn't take any pics prior to moving on although I did see that some of the unevenness was caused by sanding issues but thought the issues were bigger than just that. I have seen some talk of heating and flaming and that may be a next step.

-Pat

P.S. Rod Davies the rugby guy?

Of course the rugby guy.

Burning off your stain won't change shit. Sand mo betta.

[scotties22]

I'm curious about the "cleaned it up and applied the stain". How? I'm not being a smartass, that just really jumped out at me.

[Sasquatch]

Here's all the possibilities I see, in order of likeliness:

1. It's all scratchy at like, 320 grit, and the stain is going into these microscopic cuts and leaving dark areas.

2. It's NOT all scratchy and you sanded good. In this case:

2.1 You are looking at heartwood and sapwood, and it took the stain differently
2.2 You are seeing the area about 3/8" below the plateau where the wood ALMOST ALWAYS shows stain differently.
2.3 You are seeing some fundamental density issue with the wood, it's spongey, or wet, or something.
2.4 You are using something that won't ever stain briar well and you just don't know that yet (you didn't say what your stain was - perhaps your results were NOT that good on the first one?)

Without pictures, we'll never know. By and large, briar does NOT act anything like pine, and I know EXACTLY what you are talking about, and have treated many pine workpieces with a stain conditioner. This is NEVER required with briar, never, never ever. It's all you can do to get briar to take stain .2mm deep in the first place, let alone have it over-saturate one area and not penetrate another barring awful wood quality (see 2.3)

[RiverWader]

I'm curious about the "cleaned it up and applied the stain". How? I'm not being a smartass, that just really jumped out at me.

After sanding I just used air (air compressor) to blow it off and then used a tack cloth to get it as clean as I could. Then used a pipe cleaner to apply the stain looking for coverage more than anything else as I had planned on sanding most off anyway.

-Pat

[RiverWader]

Sas-

My sanding was not perfect. I did notice a few scratches but that was a distinct, easy to see and blame problem and know how to fix that. The random splotchiness where different sections of the wood appeared to absorb stain at different rates was where my concern was. I used Feibings leather stain so would think I'm OK there. My workspace is pretty cool, ~60 degrees, so am leaning toward using a heat gun to warm the pipe prior to application and, as Bruce mentioned, only sand down to 400 grit for the initial application. I'm hoping that will make reluctant wood pores a little more receptive to stain.

-Pat

[scotties22]

It sounds like you just got a piece of briar that stained funny....it's happens. Some times you run into a piece that has a bald spot in the grain. 60 degrees really shouldn't make that much of a difference with the stain penetrating the wood so I doubt a heat gun is going to help with the unevenness. Try sanding longer at 220 before you move up through the grits. I have found that 220 is a magical finishing tool when you sand thoroughly with it

[Ratimus]

It sounds like you just got a piece of briar that stained funny....it's happens. Some times you run into a piece that has a bald spot in the grain.

I'm guessing this is the case. Was your block an ebauchon or plateau? Because in plateau, it's like you're sanding away uniform layers (kind of like an onion) whereas in an ebauchon where the grain is oriented every which way, it's pretty common to run into big bald spots and/or transitions between heartwood/sapwood where you're essentially looking at wood from very different parts of the burl.

[e Markle]

Sometimes the outer half inch or so of the briar will absorb quite a bit more stain as well.

[sandahlpipe]

I had this issue when I turned with dull tools where there was tear out. There weren't sanding marks, but the briar didn't stain evenly where it got ripped out.

[Charl]

Try to even out the stain with alcohol, just before sanding with the next grit. Might help you, for now, in any case.

[RiverWader]

Thanks for the suggestions all. This was an ebauchon block and it the burl grains were obvious in some parts but no so much in others. As for dull tools, I'm assuming I'll know it when I see it. I just got a wood lathe and tools (new) so don't really have the experience of knowing a dull tool when I see it. They appear to cut well at this point and not getting any tear out but will keep that in mind. I was going to give an alcohol wipe a try as much to see what it will do as anything.

-Pat