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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:49 pm 
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You will have a hard time doing a good job buffing off under-stain with brown. It's too aggressive. The secret to a good contrast stain is good under-stain removal. It needs to be very even after your done removing the under stain. My suggestion, don't buff the under-stain, just sand. You'll have lots more control and have a better shot at a good result.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:02 pm 
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Location: Brevard, NC
I was planning on understaining with black. Does that change things? Sand to 600 bf the overstain then?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:07 pm 
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Location: Madison Heights, Virginia
I have had great luck sanding my pipes using:
120,220,320,400,600
Then under stain black, brown, or whatever other darker color for contrast.
Sand again at 600 to remove the under stain, before applying the second color.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:27 pm 
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Location: McCall, Idaho
I normally go slack sander or rasp then file, start sanding and staining at 320, 400, 600, 800, 1200, (1500 or even 2000 at times depending on wood hardness(resins in pores and pore structure)) I put my top coat of stain on around 800-1200 depending on wood. using multiple (2-3) topcoats normally I start 2nd color at 600, and work in with other top coats by feel and look. Fade staining I normally start around 400 and blend around 800-1200.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:50 pm 
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See, lots of ways to skin the cat.

I will gently comment to those using a grits above 600: you don't have to. Some would even say you don't have to go above 400. I'd suggest that if you are getting better results going that far, you could save some time researching methods that get you there without all that work. If you like to sand, then rock on.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:54 pm 
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I don't buff of dark understains because they mess up my wheels. I do a lot of natural finish pipes, and packing them in with stained up tripoli or diamond compound is very silly. So I try to use the buffing wheels as part of the shining process not part of the coloring process.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:55 am 
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Tyler wrote:
See, lots of ways to skin the cat.

I will gently comment to those using a grits above 600: you don't have to. Some would even say you don't have to go above 400. I'd suggest that if you are getting better results going that far, you could save some time researching methods that get you there without all that work. If you like to sand, then rock on.



I would like to throw something into the mix here that partially contradicts what you are saying. Your comments on sanding grit only really work is we assume that all sanding materials are created equal and applied in the same manner.
For instance, power sanding will produce a different result to hand sanding, sanding with a worn piece of paper will produce a different result to a brand new piece, and sanding with SiCd paper will produce a different result to AlOx.

For a real world example, I use mirka sanding products almost exclusively. If I power sand with abralon discs I can get a perfect finish with the 500grit no trouble, I could almost apply wax, no buffing required, with the 320 grit I could buff and wax with no trouble, especially on a natural finish pipe. For hand sanding however I find that I need to use 800 as my last grit otherwise microscratches are visible to my eyes, on a stained pipe at least. Clearly here there is something either in the product I use or the technique that requires a different approach for me.
In your shop, with your products and your techniques, 600 is plenty high enough, come to my shop and use my materials and you may find things different.

This would be my advice for those having trouble with sanding. First pick a good product (recommended here is good), sand carefully to a grit 1 or 2 higher than is generally accepted and work until you are getting consistent results you are happy with and then start working back until you find what you really need.
Saying you only need to sand to 400 or 600 may in theory be good advice but if that is used by someone who is using a poor quality paper with a bad sanding technique is only going to cause hours of frustration and wasted time and wood.
Just my tuppence anyway.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:55 am 
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Location: McCall, Idaho
Tyler wrote:
See, lots of ways to skin the cat.

I will gently comment to those using a grits above 600: you don't have to. Some would even say you don't have to go above 400. I'd suggest that if you are getting better results going that far, you could save some time researching methods that get you there without all that work. If you like to sand, then rock on.


Totally agree Tyler, you definitely do not have too and at times waxing can be a huge pain when sanding above 600, and know a lot of pipe makers only go to 400.
I'm just a weird duck most of the time lol. Defiantly not something most would do nor should guys still learning should do or they will just waste their time, materials and probably ruin their stain job lol.
Good call

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:41 pm 
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caskwith wrote:
Tyler wrote:
See, lots of ways to skin the cat.

I will gently comment to those using a grits above 600: you don't have to. Some would even say you don't have to go above 400. I'd suggest that if you are getting better results going that far, you could save some time researching methods that get you there without all that work. If you like to sand, then rock on.



I would like to throw something into the mix here that partially contradicts what you are saying. Your comments on sanding grit only really work is we assume that all sanding materials are created equal and applied in the same manner.
For instance, power sanding will produce a different result to hand sanding, sanding with a worn piece of paper will produce a different result to a brand new piece, and sanding with SiCd paper will produce a different result to AlOx.

For a real world example, I use mirka sanding products almost exclusively. If I power sand with abralon discs I can get a perfect finish with the 500grit no trouble, I could almost apply wax, no buffing required, with the 320 grit I could buff and wax with no trouble, especially on a natural finish pipe. For hand sanding however I find that I need to use 800 as my last grit otherwise microscratches are visible to my eyes, on a stained pipe at least. Clearly here there is something either in the product I use or the technique that requires a different approach for me.
In your shop, with your products and your techniques, 600 is plenty high enough, come to my shop and use my materials and you may find things different.

This would be my advice for those having trouble with sanding. First pick a good product (recommended here is good), sand carefully to a grit 1 or 2 higher than is generally accepted and work until you are getting consistent results you are happy with and then start working back until you find what you really need.
Saying you only need to sand to 400 or 600 may in theory be good advice but if that is used by someone who is using a poor quality paper with a bad sanding technique is only going to cause hours of frustration and wasted time and wood.
Just my tuppence anyway.


I don't disagree at all. That's what I meant when I said to research other methods for better sanding results. I just didn't want to type as much as you did. :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:16 pm 
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Tyler wrote:
caskwith wrote:
Tyler wrote:
See, lots of ways to skin the cat.

I will gently comment to those using a grits above 600: you don't have to. Some would even say you don't have to go above 400. I'd suggest that if you are getting better results going that far, you could save some time researching methods that get you there without all that work. If you like to sand, then rock on.



I would like to throw something into the mix here that partially contradicts what you are saying. Your comments on sanding grit only really work is we assume that all sanding materials are created equal and applied in the same manner.
For instance, power sanding will produce a different result to hand sanding, sanding with a worn piece of paper will produce a different result to a brand new piece, and sanding with SiCd paper will produce a different result to AlOx.

For a real world example, I use mirka sanding products almost exclusively. If I power sand with abralon discs I can get a perfect finish with the 500grit no trouble, I could almost apply wax, no buffing required, with the 320 grit I could buff and wax with no trouble, especially on a natural finish pipe. For hand sanding however I find that I need to use 800 as my last grit otherwise microscratches are visible to my eyes, on a stained pipe at least. Clearly here there is something either in the product I use or the technique that requires a different approach for me.
In your shop, with your products and your techniques, 600 is plenty high enough, come to my shop and use my materials and you may find things different.

This would be my advice for those having trouble with sanding. First pick a good product (recommended here is good), sand carefully to a grit 1 or 2 higher than is generally accepted and work until you are getting consistent results you are happy with and then start working back until you find what you really need.
Saying you only need to sand to 400 or 600 may in theory be good advice but if that is used by someone who is using a poor quality paper with a bad sanding technique is only going to cause hours of frustration and wasted time and wood.
Just my tuppence anyway.


I don't disagree at all. That's what I meant when I said to research other methods for better sanding results. I just didn't want to type as much as you did. :wink:


Yeah I know your game! ;)

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