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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:57 am 
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Sasquatch wrote:
Yeah you need to build up the understand slowly.


To answer the question, yes, I would go directly to shellac after top staining, and I know there are people who mix shellac and the top stain and do this in one pass.


Forgive me for being a ignorant dork, but I thought the purpose of shellac was, in part, to prevent the stain from rubbing off. Wouldn't applying stain and shellac in one pass make the entire finish more prone to rubbing off?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:20 pm 
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No Jeremia, just finished a pipe in a deep green for a customer and thought "Oh God here we go".I wasn't getting the shine I'm use to with my usual way, so I mixed the shellac a little more by adding a few more flakes and added the tint. Applied and rubbed off, after a few seconds, then buffed with a clean soft wheel. Did this 3 times and now I have a shiny lollipop!!! :thumbsup: Usually, I use a very light cut of shellac I make up every month.Has worked for many, many years.{Brooklyn Blonde} From Brooklyn tool and craft www.brooklyntoolandcraft.com hope this helps!Very good Shellacs!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:26 pm 
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I've said before that you will get a different answer about finishing from every pipe maker that gets asked tho there may be some basic similarities.
My "way":
For application of anything liquid (base stains, top stains, sealers) I spray it on with a Paasche airbrush. For me this eliminates any smearing or dragging caused by wiping. I wet-sand the base stain off, wet-sand some more to eliminate scratches, adequately dry the stummel, then spray the top stain. I am partial to Behlen Solarlux NGR stains and Behlen Woodturner's Finish for a "sealer". I apply several light coats of the latter (fine sanding in between if needed) then buff. I have three different grades of Menzerna compounds and can usually skip the coarsest (equal to brown Trip). I don't buff the raw wood, period. I sand with whatever it takes to remove scratches. I look for them with a good light and a jeweler's loupe. I search for scratches and wet-sand them out in between the base coat of stain and the top coat of stain. That way I don't touch the top coat (potentially adding new scratches) prior to the sealer. I polish the sealer being mindful to not cut thru it.
Again, I emphasize that this works for me. Others may think I'm full of Shiite. I don't give a Shiite. I'm happy with it and I've not had any complaints. Everyone must find their own "way" so says Lao Tzu.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:43 pm 
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Quote:
="oklahoma red"
I apply several light coats of the latter (fine sanding in between if needed) then buff. I have three different grades of Menzerna compounds and can usually skip the coarsest (equal to brown Trip).


When you say fine sanding in between coats of finish, I assume you are referring to a grit about 1000-1500, correct?
I was planning on using a 2lb cut shellac that i made to apply thin coats, sanding between coats as needed, probably three coats total. Then buffing with white diamond and then waxing.

Will a smooth pipe for instance need to be waxed after shellac and white diamond?
and I'm assuming with rusticated pipes there wouldn't be much buffing after shellac due to fibers getting caught in every bit of the rustication, turning the pipe into a lint roller.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:21 pm 
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You guys are so hopelessly Old School. :lol:

If you want to do the real deal, the 21st century Cool Thing... you know, be a groundbreaker...

...finish your pipes with an edge-to-edge layer of velvet fur:

http://www.thedailyvarnish.com/2012/07/ ... -manicure/

Try it once, you'll never go back. :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:26 pm 
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Rbraniganpipes wrote:
Quote:
="oklahoma red"
I apply several light coats of the latter (fine sanding in between if needed) then buff. I have three different grades of Menzerna compounds and can usually skip the coarsest (equal to brown Trip).


When you say fine sanding in between coats of finish, I assume you are referring to a grit about 1000-1500, correct?
I was planning on using a 2lb cut shellac that i made to apply thin coats, sanding between coats as needed, probably three coats total. Then buffing with white diamond and then waxing.

Will a smooth pipe for instance need to be waxed after shellac and white diamond?
and I'm assuming with rusticated pipes there wouldn't be much buffing after shellac due to fibers getting caught in every bit of the rustication, turning the pipe into a lint roller.


1000-1500 (I use the finest steel wool I can find) will work. All you want to do is dull the surface a little and knock off any lint boogers or any thing else that have fallen on the surface when it was wet. Dust control is obviously important when finishing.
Wax a smooth if you wish. With the Woodturner's Finish waxing doesn't do much. The finish is already as glossy as it is going to get. Waxing the stem is a good practice.
I still spray blasted pipes with Behlens then use Renaissance wax to knock back the shine a little. My preference is for a slightly duller finish on a textured surface. I buff the Renaissance with a quality shoe brush.
Yes, the petroleum smell fades away.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:28 pm 
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LatakiaLover wrote:
You guys are so hopelessly Old School. :lol:

If you want to do the real deal, the 21st century Cool Thing... you know, be a groundbreaker...

...finish your pipes with an edge-to-edge layer of velvet fur:

http://www.thedailyvarnish.com/2012/07/ ... -manicure/

Try it once, you'll never go back. :thumbsup:



I think I'll try flocking a pipe. Super cool!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:40 pm 
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Great! Thanks for the tips. Ive got three pipes that are all ready to given their turn at shining. I truly appreciate the info and suggestions on how to proceed.

velvet sounds nice. comfortable in the hands i'd imagine.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:23 am 
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Thanks George for the help. I was wondering what the flock goes wrong occasionally, in addition to getting out of bed!!! :notworthy:


Last edited by pipedreamer on Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:06 am 
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This was very informative, I've seen alot of crap flying around about shellac lately, and have been wanting to bring the finish on my pipes to a new level. I think this thread is just the thing to help with that. Now to go spend money and countless hours starting my own little finish cult. :twisted:

Judah
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:44 am 
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So i have been experimenting with shellac lately, and have found that i am having trouble getting it to apply evenly. I have tried:
-brushing it on, then attempting to sand down the high spots
- brushing it on, then wiping it off after 5 seconds, then applying multiple coats
-thinning the shellac to approximately 1 lb cut, and attempting these methods again.

I am still having trouble with the shellac going on evenly. It seems to go on thicker in spots. Almost as if it is overlapping and drying thicker where it overlaps.

Any suggestions for how to get a better result? rubbing it on with a rag? using something other than a brush?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:13 pm 
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I use a pipe cleaner usually, you could use a brush though.... go real fast is the secret, if there is one, do one real fast wet coat and you'll have less of that overlappy sort of issue. It still occurs some and I use 800 grit to knock it back if I have to, but usually I am aggressive enough on the tripoli that it takes it off. I take basically almost all the shellac shell back off the pipe.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:20 pm 
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For me, the light sanding between coats and even of the final coat followed by buffing evens out any imperfections and provides the deep shine.

-Pat


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:46 pm 
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I have goat mop brush that lives in the bottle shellac, a hole has been drilled in the lid and brush glued in. I use this to put a heavy coat on the pipe all over in a matter of a couple of seconds, by the time I get the brush back in the bottle and pick up a paper towel it's ready to wipe off. No trouble with high spots or overlap.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:52 am 
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Rbraniganpipes wrote:
So i have been experimenting with shellac lately, and have found that i am having trouble getting it to apply evenly. I have tried:
-brushing it on, then attempting to sand down the high spots
- brushing it on, then wiping it off after 5 seconds, then applying multiple coats
-thinning the shellac to approximately 1 lb cut, and attempting these methods again.

I am still having trouble with the shellac going on evenly. It seems to go on thicker in spots. Almost as if it is overlapping and drying thicker where it overlaps.

Any suggestions for how to get a better result? rubbing it on with a rag? using something other than a brush?



Read about French polishing. Do not copy it for a pipe, but learn from it and modify the process to apply it INTO the top layer of Briar.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:14 pm 
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For anyone who was in the military before they all switched to those awful suede boots, something I realized not that long ago is that if you were properly taught how to do a good spit shine on a boot and understand what's happening on a microscopic level with the leather, you pretty much already know how to french polish. Exact same concept. Modify as needed. I'm still working on perfecting it on briar, but I saw a big improvement once I made the connection. Hope this helps.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:39 pm 
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mightysmurf8201 wrote:
For anyone who was in the military before they all switched to those awful suede boots, something I realized not that long ago is that if you were properly taught how to do a good spit shine on a boot and understand what's happening on a microscopic level with the leather, you pretty much already know how to french polish. Exact same concept. Modify as needed. I'm still working on perfecting it on briar, but I saw a big improvement once I made the connection. Hope this helps.


I was just thinking this same thing a couple months ago. It's not a French polish, it's a Cape May polish.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:36 pm 
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mightysmurf8201 wrote:
For anyone who was in the military before they all switched to those awful suede boots, something I realized not that long ago is that if you were properly taught how to do a good spit shine on a boot and understand what's happening on a microscopic level with the leather, you pretty much already know how to french polish. Exact same concept. Modify as needed. I'm still working on perfecting it on briar, but I saw a big improvement once I made the connection. Hope this helps.

Are You actually using cotton balls and water or some other method? I have started using a second spit coat of shellac but I just buff with red tripoli and white diamond for each coat. I do dry buff between coats to remove any residue. This has improved the finish but has done nothing for the shaping, Norm.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:44 am 
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notow1 wrote:
mightysmurf8201 wrote:
For anyone who was in the military before they all switched to those awful suede boots, something I realized not that long ago is that if you were properly taught how to do a good spit shine on a boot and understand what's happening on a microscopic level with the leather, you pretty much already know how to french polish. Exact same concept. Modify as needed. I'm still working on perfecting it on briar, but I saw a big improvement once I made the connection. Hope this helps.

Are You actually using cotton balls and water or some other method? I have started using a second spit coat of shellac but I just buff with red tripoli and white diamond for each coat. I do dry buff between coats to remove any residue. This has improved the finish but has done nothing for the shaping, Norm.



There are many different ways to go about. Start trying out a few methods and you will start to get a feel for how the materials work.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:04 pm 
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mightysmurf8201 wrote:
For anyone who was in the military before they all switched to those awful suede boots, something I realized not that long ago is that if you were properly taught how to do a good spit shine on a boot and understand what's happening on a microscopic level with the leather, you pretty much already know how to french polish.

I was following this thread with great interest until this pushed my button, so I am doing a mini hijack.
I was in the military during the era of black boots and still have a military affiliation. I love the suede boots, just take a fingernail brush and give them a going over to spruce them up. The black shiny boots were an abomination. It even said on the packaging NOT to apply too much polish. The paratroopers and SF guys started that crap and all the wannabes followed suit until it was standard. Back in WWII they used boot dubbing, which was a leather protectant and very dull. Sensible guys.
I still water shine my dress shoes, won't wear Corfam or patent leather, but only dress up 2-3x per year.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
DocAitch

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