Check out what I found.....

Sanding, rusticating, sandblasting, buffing, etc. All here.
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ArtGuy
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Check out what I found.....

Post by ArtGuy »

The pipes are first stained with a red stain and then with a black. When they are dry he applies a layer of Zapon lacquer with a pipe cleaner. The pipe is then prodded with a hard brush to ensure that the lacquer enters all hollows and to avoid air bubbles. After just a minute it is brushed again with the same brush. The entire lacquering process only takes a few minutes and then I could hold the pipe in my hand without it sticking.

The point of the lacquer is, according to Bo, that it should enter the wood so that it does not sucks up sweat from the hand and other impurities with which the pipe comnes into contact. The idea is thus not to create a shiny layer on the surface. A comparison between a lacquered and a non-lacquered pipe shows that the only visible difference is that the lacquered pipe has a deeper black colour.



From: http://w1.451.telia.com/~u45118908/Pipe ... dh_eng.htm
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Post by ArtGuy »

From a Jewelry Maker BB:

....................................................... I regularly use Zapon
Lacquer (the best is by Zweihorn/ICI if you can get it) to seal
patina on copper. It looks and acts like nail varnish, but is much
stronger.
Last edited by ArtGuy on Mon May 10, 2004 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ArtGuy »

"The Zapon Company of Stamford, large producer of lacquers, leather cloth and rubberized materials, is the successor of the companies which originated lacquer and leather cloth in the United States, namely: The Frederick Crane Chemical Company; Tannette Company; and the Evans Artificial Leather Company...In 1884 Richard Hale, together with his son-in-law, Frederick Crane and Leonard Richards, formed the Frederick Crane Chemical Company at Springfield, N. J., to manufacture and sell lacquer for finishing plated goods, brass beds and metal ware called `Zapon', given this name because of the Japanese pronunciation for the then prevalent name for metal finishes called `Japans'. It was about this time that the trademark showing the word Zapon in a diamond was adopted. Several years later, the company name was changed to `Celluloid Zapon Company' and the factory moved to Stamford. In 1917 the Zapon Company's stock was purchased by the Atlas Powder Company of Wilmington, Delaware (Atlas Powder Company and subsidiary companies have no connection, directly or indirectly with any other manufacturer of the explosives or lacquers.)... The factory site at Stamford includes 15 acres located on Long Island Sound. Around 250 men are employed. Leonard Richards is president and general manager and M. J. Creighton is assistant general manager." L. M. Bingham, pp. 1718.


http://www.cslib.org/stamford/b_b.htm
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bscofield
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Post by bscofield »

John, on the webpage the lacquer section is under sandblasting... is that when he uses this method? Is he saying that the lacquer keeps things from penetrating the wood? Wouldn't it have to make it through the carnuba, etc before that happened? Or does the carnuba not last long?
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Post by ArtGuy »

According to another article, in Pipes and Tobacco, it says he uses Zapon laquer on every pipe. It seems to me, from this article, that it is used to preserve the wood from oils and dirt from the smokers hands.

Typicaly carnauba wax will burn off as you smoke the pipe.

What insterested me is that he is using a product meant to seal the wood. Even going so far as to use a brush to ensure it is in every nook. That would go against everything I thought I knew about finishing a pipe.
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Post by bscofield »

What insterested me is that he is using a product meant to seal the wood
right... that was going to be my next comment. Still don't know what's behind the breathing. I'll google on it for a while and see if ANYONE has anything to say about it.
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Nick
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Post by Nick »

Too cool. Laquer on pipes from the man himself. Wow!
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Post by Jeffery_Suter »

Ben,

The whole point of the briar being able to "breath", is so the moisture cause by the heat can dissipate from the pipe... as most know, moisture is the enemy when pipe smoking... nothing worse than a gurgle...

Ultimately, the briar is nothing more than a filter for the tobacco....

It may interest you to read about Meerschaum, and why it is such a great smoking material. It displaces moisture just about better than any material because of it's porous...

Intersting thread...
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Post by bscofield »

Jeff, I figured as much about the briar... but the problem is that nobody can agree on whether or not it's true. You have some guys on ASP that say they cracked pipes open that they've smoked for years and seen nothing but the true briar color all the way through it, other's say they've seen water/carbon damage. We just don't really have proof that it absorbs moisture. At what point in the pipe's existence does the moisture make it out to your hand while somking? If it absorbs the moisture the the wood has to get full, right? What are happening to Bo's pipes after having the crap smoked out of them? Someone posted on here (or maybe it was somewhere else?) a while back that they lived in the town where a big Grabow factory was and that one of the workers there told him that they lacquered all their pipes...

Those are my questions.
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Post by jeff »

Ben,
You bring up an interesting point. I've always been curious about this taboo of laquering. Granted, it prevents the briar from breathing. But, how much does briar actually breath. Your comment from another source answered my question of what would happen if I cut a well smoked pipe. Honestly, it didn't surprise me that it only soaked in so far. In fact, I would imagine it penetrates about 1/16 at the most and then dries out after resting. That's really not too much to worry about. Now, it doesn't surprise me that grabow laquers. It's the quickest and easiest method for finishing, and for a $20 hunk of cheap, machine carved briar, that's all I'd expect. But if Nordh is doing it, that may alter a few perspectives.

Jeff
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Post by Jeffery_Suter »

Interesting points indeed both Jeff & Ben...

However, I didn't say "Absorbing" moisture, I said "Dissipate" moisture...

The idea behind not "Sealing" a pipe air tight, is to let the pores in the wood do their job and not to inhibit oxygen from doing it's job, and that is to "Remove" moisture, not have the wood absorb it...

Something to consider: A cheap sealed pipe will smoke horribly, until a fairly good cake develops... this is because the cake will work as the filter at that point to dissipate the moisture, rather than you sucking up tobacco juice...

However, a first bowl in a higher mid-grade or high grade piece of briar is going to help dissipate those moistures better, quicker and deliver a cooler, cleaner tasting smoke because the wood is not sealed off from oxygen... the wood is doing the job of "Filter" until a cake develops, and then takes on the larger burden of dissipating the moisture not absorbing it...

I do think that a high quality, natural shellac though, would continue to let the wood breath and dissipate the moisture...

This is of course my educated opinion, but having smoked several thousand bowls and owned everything from Medicos, Nordings, Zemans to Dunhills it is the conclusion I've come to.

Great thread by the way! 8) [/i]
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Post by bscofield »

dis·si·pate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ds-pt)
v. dis·si·pat·ed, dis·si·pat·ing, dis·si·pates
v. tr.
To drive away; disperse.

Courtesy of dictionary.com :D

isn't there only one way for the wood to dissipate the moisture at this point? To absorb it and it either comes back out into the bowl while evaporating or it makes it's way out to the outside of the summel. The first sounds probable to me but let me say this and then qualify it. I've never known a piece of wood that didn't swell or become warped when absorbing moisture (we're at least agreed that it has to absorb at some point, right?). Now I qualify that by saying that I'm a son of carpenter and cabinet maker of 20+ years and have had this discussion with him. Now in carpentry you don't generaly use exotic super-dense woods but in cabinet making you get work with a fair amount of variety.

Sir, your rebuttle. :wink:

Don't read my post as arguing. I just like the topic at hand cause I don't understand it and because (if it is) I don't like old wives tales.
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Post by Jeffery_Suter »

Ben,

It's certainly not an argument, we fully agree! :lol:

My point was more toward what Jeff was saying about the Dr. Grabows... If they dip the wood into a sealant, not only will the wood not absorb the moisture, but oxygen couldn't do it's work on the moisture either.

Yes the wood absorbs moisture, but it's the porus nature that lets the moisture dissipate, so if it's sealed it won't go dry, it will sit there (and that always smells nice, don't it?). That was my original point...

Question: Why is it recommend to let a pipe rest for a couple of days after it has had a few bowls smoked in it? Because it needs to dry...

See? We agree...
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Post by bscofield »

What about the wood warping? Where would the moisture escape to, the bowl or the outside of the stummel? I hope that the Grabow folks would at least protect the inside of the bowl if they were indeed dipping the pipes :cry:

I guess my point is unless the moisture is being carried to the outside of the stummel it shouldn't matter if it's lacquered because you would only lacquer the outside (I hope). But if it's being evaporated via the tobacco chamber then lacquering the outside (and only the outside) wouldn't prevent it from doing it's job of retaining some moisture during our smoke and allowing it to dissipate afterwards.
But if it indeed is carried through the briar to the outside of the stummel, the briar would need to show evidence on the inside, the wood would warp (I assume -- especialy with HOT moisture in the wood) and a chain pipe-smoker would begin to feel moisture under his hands.

Am I missing something in my logic?

EDITING HERE:

The funny thing is I don't even have a desire, at this point, to lacquer any pipes. I just wanna know what the process is and how we could be missing some basics of wood and moisture OR to find out if it's just an old wives tale... :D
Last edited by bscofield on Wed May 12, 2004 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Jeffery_Suter »

Ben,

There are many cheap pipe makers that DIP their pipes... yes DIP! Shellac, lacquer, stain, you name it... have you ever smoked a Dr. Grabow? I've actually smelled ones that smell like burning plastic, that's how hot they get (I buy estate pipe by the lot, so I get many of they things, but people still collect them). You can actually burn your fingers if one of those suckers get hot enough!

Did you know that Peterson dips their pipes in stain? Yep. That's one of the reasons so many collectors & Peterson fans sand the inside of the bowl of a new Peterson! Also why they are really tough to get a cake going. But, once broken in, are generally great smokers.

As to the warping, that is one of the benefits to Briar Burl... It's super compact, tight grain. As you said, it's a really hard, tough wood... it has to be to survive where they grow, especially considering the top half of the burl is exposed to the elements... this is why it is perfect for pipe smoking.

As to you point of the moisture is being carried to the outside of the stummel, I would believe that if the outside of the stummel is COMPLETELY sealed (meaning air tight) the pipe would need 5 times or longer the amount of rest that a properly breathing pipe would need.

What were we talking about? :lol:
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Post by bscofield »

So you think that the moisture is carried to the outside? So why no build-up? Why can't we detect any of it? Why do some people break open and old pipe and see some carbon/moisture in the wood and some not?

Mainly what I don't get is if it is taking the moisture to the outside of the stummel for evaporation wouldn't it be noticed in some way and wouldn't the majority of briar show signs of it (on the inside)?

I think I'm going to sacrafice an old grabow that I got a flea market. I'm gonna smash it and see if it "retained" moisture or damage or signs or whatever because it was sealed. I'll post pictures and results later :D
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Post by Jeffery_Suter »

Ben,

I'm not saying it's carried to the outside, I'm saying that the air needs to get IN to dry the wood... if it's sealed, it won't do that...

Picture a sponge dipped in white glue... when it dries, how much water will that sponge hold?

Ultimately, when smoking a quality pipe, the briar is holding the moisture and keeps the pipe from smoking wet, so it's acting as a filter... if you fill the pores of the wood with something air tight, the oxygen can't dissipate the moisture causing it to sit in the smoking chamber...

I didn't say the wood doesn't absorb the moisture, I said that sealing the wood would inhibit the dissipation of moisture (meaning during the resting stage of pipe care). I don't think I can articulate it any other way, so perhaps I'm completely wrong... so I'll stop now.
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Post by bscofield »

I see what your saying. I wasn't pushing the absorb moisture vs. dissipate moisture dealy. I'm just thinking about what the channel through which the air that dissipates the moisture comes through. In other words, I'm trying to figure out:

IF the briar absorbs and the dissipates moisture (which we both agree on) then HOW does the air get to the moisture to evaporate it. In other words does the air HAVE to travel through the pores on the outside of the stummel or can it get there another way and be just as effective.

See what I mean?
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Post by Nick »

Doesn't Bo talk about the pores of the wood closing in the article this all came from?
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