Check out what I found.....
Yes he does, but, I think what people are saying is that it is possible that sealing just the outside of the pipe surface (which is all that Nordh is doing) may not hamper a pipes ability to rest and dry out between smokes.
John
www.crosbypipes.com
www.crosbypipes.com
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Jeffery_Suter
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Yes John, that was my exact point...
You can use a protective coating of many types (wax, lacquer, shellac, etc.) to protect Briar, without SEALING the wood from oxygen... as would happen if you dip the wood into a sealant. I still can't believe they still do that!
There we go Ben, I think that covers my thoughts
You can use a protective coating of many types (wax, lacquer, shellac, etc.) to protect Briar, without SEALING the wood from oxygen... as would happen if you dip the wood into a sealant. I still can't believe they still do that!
There we go Ben, I think that covers my thoughts
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Jeffery_Suter
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Jeffery_Suter
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Hi folks,
Just join this fine group. Been reading all the post to get a hand on what's going on. Have learn a lot so far. Just had to get in on this one. As a son of a painter I was told never to put a seal on anything you might want to re-work someday. It's heck to go back if for some reason you change your mind. I was told never paint or seal "redwood" not the make pipes out of it. But Redwood must breath. Seems to me Brair would be the same. Now that I think about it, my Dad smoked pipes and I remember him getting a lot of paint on them from just handling them while working. He would say a few fine words and throw them away as the would not smoke worth a S--- anymore.
Just join this fine group. Been reading all the post to get a hand on what's going on. Have learn a lot so far. Just had to get in on this one. As a son of a painter I was told never to put a seal on anything you might want to re-work someday. It's heck to go back if for some reason you change your mind. I was told never paint or seal "redwood" not the make pipes out of it. But Redwood must breath. Seems to me Brair would be the same. Now that I think about it, my Dad smoked pipes and I remember him getting a lot of paint on them from just handling them while working. He would say a few fine words and throw them away as the would not smoke worth a S--- anymore.
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Jeffery_Suter
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Thanks Jeff'
Had not thought about it much but Dad started out painting in the old day's of "Lead base" paint. Really a bad idea.lol
Need to correct on thing I said, you can paint Redwood but not on all sides. Like a deck, you can paint the top but not the bottom as it would rot from the inside out.
Had not thought about it much but Dad started out painting in the old day's of "Lead base" paint. Really a bad idea.lol
Need to correct on thing I said, you can paint Redwood but not on all sides. Like a deck, you can paint the top but not the bottom as it would rot from the inside out.
Interesting thread! Had a couple of thoughts as I read through...
As we all know, briar is a very dense material which, in it's unprocessed state, is also saturated with oils and resins. In nature, plants exibiting these characteristics usually occur in arid climates; they are a survival strategy to reduce the evaporation of scarce water. The resins in briar are (to a great degree) removed during processing by boiling the rough-cut blocks, which are subsequently air-dryed under controlled humidity until they're in shape to be worked into pipes. It seems to me that a primary quality of good briar is it's inablity to absorb (or lose) moisture! Dimensional stability is a critical aspect of any material which must undergo the extremes of temperature and moisture which commonly occur in a pipe. Woods which are porous are quite unstable, dimensionally; they expand and contract in relation to the level of even ambient (atmospheric) moisture. If briar easily absorbed and released moisture, you'd have a very difficult time getting a good fit on the stem - which joins an impermeable material (vulcanite/acrylic) to the wood. In addition, the stem mortise is usually the thinnest wood on the pipe, traps significant moisture during smoking, and would be very susceptible to expansion/contraction if the wood was even moderately porous. On dry day the stem would fall out, on a humid one the shank would crack! 8O
This is NOT to say that a pipe doesn't absorb moisture. I'm sure that any wood, even the densest exotic, has a degree of porosity. However, given the preceding, I can understand why coating the exterior surfaces of a pipe with an impermeable finish would have little effect on the smoking qualities of the instrument. The interior surfaces would be more than sufficient to transpire what little moisture the wood will accomodate. In fact, a sealed exterior might keep the pipe more stable and less susceptible to environmental influences.
Final thoughts - what's the difference between a well broken-in pipe and a brand new one? The cake. IMNSHO it's the function of the cake to moderate the moisture created during smoking. It has the ability to rapidly absorb the moisture created during smoking and release it (relatively) quickly back to the atmosphere while the pipe "rests" between smokes. This is also why building cake in a meerschaum is not recommended - the natural porosity of the stone is impeded if a layer of char is allowed to build on the surface of the bowl.
Whew!
As we all know, briar is a very dense material which, in it's unprocessed state, is also saturated with oils and resins. In nature, plants exibiting these characteristics usually occur in arid climates; they are a survival strategy to reduce the evaporation of scarce water. The resins in briar are (to a great degree) removed during processing by boiling the rough-cut blocks, which are subsequently air-dryed under controlled humidity until they're in shape to be worked into pipes. It seems to me that a primary quality of good briar is it's inablity to absorb (or lose) moisture! Dimensional stability is a critical aspect of any material which must undergo the extremes of temperature and moisture which commonly occur in a pipe. Woods which are porous are quite unstable, dimensionally; they expand and contract in relation to the level of even ambient (atmospheric) moisture. If briar easily absorbed and released moisture, you'd have a very difficult time getting a good fit on the stem - which joins an impermeable material (vulcanite/acrylic) to the wood. In addition, the stem mortise is usually the thinnest wood on the pipe, traps significant moisture during smoking, and would be very susceptible to expansion/contraction if the wood was even moderately porous. On dry day the stem would fall out, on a humid one the shank would crack! 8O
This is NOT to say that a pipe doesn't absorb moisture. I'm sure that any wood, even the densest exotic, has a degree of porosity. However, given the preceding, I can understand why coating the exterior surfaces of a pipe with an impermeable finish would have little effect on the smoking qualities of the instrument. The interior surfaces would be more than sufficient to transpire what little moisture the wood will accomodate. In fact, a sealed exterior might keep the pipe more stable and less susceptible to environmental influences.
Final thoughts - what's the difference between a well broken-in pipe and a brand new one? The cake. IMNSHO it's the function of the cake to moderate the moisture created during smoking. It has the ability to rapidly absorb the moisture created during smoking and release it (relatively) quickly back to the atmosphere while the pipe "rests" between smokes. This is also why building cake in a meerschaum is not recommended - the natural porosity of the stone is impeded if a layer of char is allowed to build on the surface of the bowl.
Whew!
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Jeffery_Suter
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Tyler
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Hey Guys,
I've been out of town, and though I did have some brief web access I missed this discussion. What a grand one!
I'm going to have lean mostly in the direction of Mitch's post, but I will add that briar is more porous than I initially suspected. It is not unusual for me to stain a pipe and have dots of color show up inside the bowl. The stain has penetrated 1/4"- to 3/8"-thick areas of briar. Of course, alcohol and water are going to penetrate the wood differently, but that still surprises me.
Having said that, I DON'T think briar plays as important a role in the smokability of a pipe as it is given credit for. Sure, briar full of impurities is going to be nasty, but assuming clean briar I don't think variations in permeability are that critical. I think an interesting case in point may be morta (Trever?). I cannot imagine that morta, a pertrified wood, has much absorbing qualities at all, yet it apparently still smokes well.
I was reading (again) Rick Newcombe's, In Search of Pipe Dreams, this morning, and ran across this quote by Lars Ivarsson, "A good smoking pipe is 90% physics, 5% materials, and 5% magic." Though that is close to how I think about it, I was surprised by Lars' opinion that materials were playing only a 5% role!
All that in mind, sealing the outside of the wood is going to have minimal effect. Shucks, carnauba is sealing the wood. This isssue is simply one of degrees. And in the end, I don't think that the degree of difference between shellac an carnauba matters at all when it comes to smokability. I think the biggest difference between the two finishes is durability.
Tyler
Tyler
I've been out of town, and though I did have some brief web access I missed this discussion. What a grand one!
I'm going to have lean mostly in the direction of Mitch's post, but I will add that briar is more porous than I initially suspected. It is not unusual for me to stain a pipe and have dots of color show up inside the bowl. The stain has penetrated 1/4"- to 3/8"-thick areas of briar. Of course, alcohol and water are going to penetrate the wood differently, but that still surprises me.
Having said that, I DON'T think briar plays as important a role in the smokability of a pipe as it is given credit for. Sure, briar full of impurities is going to be nasty, but assuming clean briar I don't think variations in permeability are that critical. I think an interesting case in point may be morta (Trever?). I cannot imagine that morta, a pertrified wood, has much absorbing qualities at all, yet it apparently still smokes well.
I was reading (again) Rick Newcombe's, In Search of Pipe Dreams, this morning, and ran across this quote by Lars Ivarsson, "A good smoking pipe is 90% physics, 5% materials, and 5% magic." Though that is close to how I think about it, I was surprised by Lars' opinion that materials were playing only a 5% role!
All that in mind, sealing the outside of the wood is going to have minimal effect. Shucks, carnauba is sealing the wood. This isssue is simply one of degrees. And in the end, I don't think that the degree of difference between shellac an carnauba matters at all when it comes to smokability. I think the biggest difference between the two finishes is durability.
Tyler
Tyler
Tyler Lane Pipes
http://www.tylerlanepipes.com
http://www.tylerlanepipes.com
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Jeffery_Suter
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I agree with the statement that physics plays a major role in how a pipe smokes. Years ago, I was in Boston, and visited a couple of Tobacconists and bought a pipe from each. One of the pipes smoked terrible from the very beginning. I eventually put this pipe in my workshop as a workshop pipe, as I no longer cared if it got dirty or dinged (my workshop is sort of the island of misfit pipes).
After reading Rick's article about opening the draft on a pipe (for about the tenth time) I decided to try it on this pipe and see what happened. If I messed it up, so what, it couldn't smoke any worse. What happened was an amazing transformation! It was a completely different pipe in all respects.
From that day I was a believer in how a pipe is made plays a major part in how it will smoke. That pipe just needed a little help.
After reading Rick's article about opening the draft on a pipe (for about the tenth time) I decided to try it on this pipe and see what happened. If I messed it up, so what, it couldn't smoke any worse. What happened was an amazing transformation! It was a completely different pipe in all respects.
From that day I was a believer in how a pipe is made plays a major part in how it will smoke. That pipe just needed a little help.
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Jeffery_Suter
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Marks,
You hit that one... on the um.. mark...
Fully agreed, I've refurbished probably 50 pipes, and I always ask the customer if they like how it smoked, does it get gurgles, Etc. so I've drilled out many a pipe...
All the difference in the world, no doubt...
I do however, believe that certain brair just simply tastes like, well not so good... I will say that I've even gotten a Medico to be a good smoker in my rotaion with quite a bit of work, but it smokes nice now!
You hit that one... on the um.. mark...
Fully agreed, I've refurbished probably 50 pipes, and I always ask the customer if they like how it smoked, does it get gurgles, Etc. so I've drilled out many a pipe...
All the difference in the world, no doubt...
I do however, believe that certain brair just simply tastes like, well not so good... I will say that I've even gotten a Medico to be a good smoker in my rotaion with quite a bit of work, but it smokes nice now!
Hah! Trust Tyler to pull our discussion back to the pragmatical aspects of pipe crafting. I have to wholeheartedly agree that design (physics, not aesthetics) has more to do with the quality of the smoke than materials. My Missouri Meerschaum smokes just great and it's made out of a reamed-out corn cob slathered in yellow plaster-of-paris with some God-knows-what piece of hardwood for a stem and an orange-y bit crafted (lovingly) from re-cycled soda bottles!! Apparently these Mid-Westerners have a native comprehension of the physics of pipes which transcends that of mere mortals!
Tyler, it doesn't surprise me that you've seen stain permeate through a bowl wall, but I bet it comes through on the soft-wood and not in a tight birds-eye. This leads to some interesting speculation on the characteristics (smoking or cake-building) between a (vertical) straight-grain and a cross-grain pipe. Hmmmm....
I was going to go on at some length about the differences and characteristics of pipe materials, but I think I’ll spare y’all and make it short and sweet. I bet if you took the best-smoking Bo Nordh pipe you could find, then CNC-recreated it from a block of pure stainless steel, you’d end up with a pipe the would smoke very badly and burn your hand! My point is that the best pipes are a marriage between the most suitable natural product Man has discovered (briar root) and the design and craftsmanship of the pipemaker. There is no substitute for the experience, aesthetic and tradition which come together in creating a fine pipe. Luckily, we are all beneficiaries of this tradition and history whether we smoke cobs or the finest briars.
Peace.
Tyler, it doesn't surprise me that you've seen stain permeate through a bowl wall, but I bet it comes through on the soft-wood and not in a tight birds-eye. This leads to some interesting speculation on the characteristics (smoking or cake-building) between a (vertical) straight-grain and a cross-grain pipe. Hmmmm....
I was going to go on at some length about the differences and characteristics of pipe materials, but I think I’ll spare y’all and make it short and sweet. I bet if you took the best-smoking Bo Nordh pipe you could find, then CNC-recreated it from a block of pure stainless steel, you’d end up with a pipe the would smoke very badly and burn your hand! My point is that the best pipes are a marriage between the most suitable natural product Man has discovered (briar root) and the design and craftsmanship of the pipemaker. There is no substitute for the experience, aesthetic and tradition which come together in creating a fine pipe. Luckily, we are all beneficiaries of this tradition and history whether we smoke cobs or the finest briars.
Peace.