Shellac-on-rustic question

[tritrek]

Hi All,

there've been talks about using shellac on pipes a lot, Sasquatch maybe my man on this topic

So as we know shellac has to be applied in several coats on furniture and then to be rubbed out with a cloth to get a high shine. But how is it with rusticated pipes? How thin shellac should be used? How many coats? How to buff it up?

Any clues or help is much apprciated!

[KurtHuhn]

I've never had to rub shellac with a cloth to get a high shine when I use it furniture or little decorative items. That may just be the shellac I use I guess, but that seems odd. What you've described sounds more like padding lacquer or something. Sometimes I sand between coats of shellac, but that's not the same thing really.

Shellac on pipes is not used in the same manner as on furniture. It's not used to make the pipe shiny, or really to provide any kind of protective shell finish. A very thin spit coat of shellac can be used to set your stain and prep the surface for buffing and application of wax - should you choose to employ shellac on pipes. For a rusticated or sandblasted pipe, you would apply the same very thin shellac in layers until you're happy with it, then buff and wax as normal.

I have also heard of pipe makers using spray shellac on sandblasted or rusticated pipes, but I have not experimented with this at all.

Now, be prepared for fallout if you use shellac. People will swear up and down that it "seals the wood" and "doesn't allow the pipe to breath". This is bunk, but try telling that to people and you'll get shouted down. People seem to equate shellac with dipping the pipe bowl in lacquer or something - which is not the same thing. Whether the risk of using shellac is worth it is up to you, but I would suggest that new pipe makers forgo things like this until they've got a good customer base built up, or the misinformation subsides.

[Leus]

The best results I've seen is to apply a thin layer of shellac to your rusticated pipe; this will give you a dull appearance. Then use a plastic brush disc instead of normal buffing; it will remove any excess and give a nice shine, without looking like varnish.

[tritrek]

Thank you very much for both of you, very good thoughts and advices!

Whether the risk of using shellac is worth it is up to you, but I would suggest that new pipe makers forgo things like this until they've got a good customer base built up, or the misinformation subsides.

...and yes, this is very true.


The only thing I wanted to try shellac is that it is very hard to wax a really craggy pipe without leaving white wax residues in the grooves because it's hard tpo reach them.

[Sasquatch]

Shellac has absolutely NO ability to protect against water vapor. Any piece of shellaced furniture that has had a hot box of pizza on it will tell you this.

On a rusticated pipe I am using 5 lb cut shellac and just applying it carefully with a brush. One or two coats leaves a beautiful shine. Have had no complaints from customers about it at all - no bubbling, no nothing. It's hard, it's shiny, it doesn't radically change the color of your finish. It's wonderful!

You will ALWAYS get best results from any finishing process by doing multiple thin coats, and as a spit coat on the smooth parts, yes, you have to cut it a lot. But if you are doing a very craggy pipe, just pad it into the rough parts with a small paint brush and leave it for an hour. I don't wax it or anything.

Shellac is shiny as hell. The "rubbed" method known as "french polish" is much more complicated than what we are doing and involves an oil carrier as well. That is tantamount to doing about 50 infinitely thin coats. We can get by with 2 or 3, luckily, and a gentle buff and wax on top (for the smooth parts!).

The boys are right tho - you can use "proprietary trade-secret pipe finish" but never say "lacquer" "shellac" or "varnish" because people tend to freak. I've had really good conversations with a few customers who immediately believed what I said about shellac, so hopefully the word gets out.

[Sasquatch]

Hmmm... just doing some more reading.... lotta sites saying shellac is good for vapor penetration but bad against liquid penetration.... will read some more. I'm looking for a specific article that compared a bunch of finishes for that kind of thing. I can't understand how something could FAIL to protect against liquid but protect against a gas.... that's just silly.

EDIT

Here's some FPL data on moisture penetration. Shellac is middle of the pack at best in this test.

http://www.practical-sailor.com/marine/ ... ngwood.pdf

(Tung oil utterly fails, but IIRC polymerized tung oil is VERY good against moisture. )

Shellac gets soft with serious heat, but the softening point is about 65C (150F) which is way too hot to touch. Anyone complaining of softening shellac can be hit on the head for smoking so hot.

[tritrek]

Another opinion, thanks! More or less this is what I wanted to hear (resp. read). Then it's just trying, and trying, and trying, and trying, and trying, and .... trying. Until I say omg that's awesome!

[tritrek]

My last question regarding this...I promise

Would this shellac be good for our purpose?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0342329947
...in case it is, what cut do you propose for using as spitcoat and final coat?
Thanks!:notworthy:

[KurtHuhn]

My last question regarding this...I promise

Would this shellac be good for our purpose?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0342329947
...in case it is, what cut do you propose for using as spitcoat and final coat?
Thanks!

That's the right stuff! You can also use amber and orange flakes for a different effect.

The mix is really up to you and what effects you want to produce. I don't weigh or measure anything, I just eyeball it all. I use the same mix, same jar, for everything I use shellac on - even knife handles and crap.

[tritrek]

I see, I do the same with most of the stuff and don't really care to measure until something goes terribly wrong (what never really does...)

So I just mix up my shellac brew and close it in a jar for... the end of days? Doesn't it harden or get jammy or something? Is it storeable?

[KurtHuhn]

It does have a shelf life, but it's in the range of months or years. As long as your jar seals up tight, you shouldn't have any problems.

[Sasquatch]

Eventually, pre-mixed shellac loses it's ability to harden up properly. I don't know if this is through absorbing water, or oxygen, or if something in it breaks down....

But jarred well, this process doesn't happen for a very long time. Like years. A really serious guy might change it out every six months, but then, a guy like that is probably using more than a jarful of shellac in six months too..... And since each pipe takes about a .1 of a mL, you could be at it for quite awhile!

[tritrek]

Thanks guys, it was the help I was looking for! I think I'll mix up 100-200ml or so... for a start...

[bregolad]

i've been reading all this business about shellac, and i think i understand most of it.
except...what is the "spit coat"? sorry if this is super basic

[Sasquatch]

A spit coat is simply a very thin coating, of well thinned out shellac. It penetrates the wood a little. It's not even enough to call a "layer". But it fills some pores, and allows the subsequent finish layers, be they wax or shellac, to adhere to it while providing a smooth and hard surface to buff against.

[SimeonTurner]

A spit coat is simply a very thin coating, of well thinned out shellac. It penetrates the wood a little. It's not even enough to call a "layer". But it fills some pores, and allows the subsequent finish layers, be they wax or shellac, to adhere to it while providing a smooth and hard surface to buff against.

Wait...HUH?

I always thought I had to put the shellac in my mouth and then spray it out on the stummel.

Oh my gosh...I need to go brush my teeth.

[tritrek]

I need to go brush my teeth.

...at least they will be shiny until the next shot of booze Alcohol thins shellac, doesn't it?

[DMI]

I've bought quite a bit of stuff from the same seller and have found them to be pretty fast, I placed an order for dye on Saturady afternoon and it arrived today (Wednesday).

When you are talking about lb cuts I take it this is the weight of flakes-solvent, I spent ages googling shellac and came up with with a ratio of 50gm/1 litre or 1 3/4 oz/33 US fl oz how does this compare with your lb cuts?

I ask because us europeans can get confused by the old fashioned weights and measures

Seriously, I have noticed that the mix I use doesn't seem to do a lot when it comes to protecting whats underneath (when used as a spit coat) but when mixed with spirit dye it does wonders for rustics and some of the softer sandblasts.

I also use the wax included shellac on some of the 'natural' pipes I make, it leaves a softer sheen rather than a shine and enhances the colour slightly so the briar appears less pink.

[Sasquatch]

The cut is pounds of flake per gallon of solvent.

[tritrek]

The cut is pounds of flake per gallon of solvent.

1 pound = 453 grams
1 gallon = 3,78 litres
So if you count back and forth (I may be mistaken...) a 1 pound cut should be 83,4 grams of shellac for 1 litre of alcohol. So Sasquatch's 5 pound cut would be 417 grams of shellac in a litre of alcohol. No wonder your 50g does nothing... but let me stress, this was just a quick count in the morning and I'm still sleepy