removing tool marks during staining

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GPipe
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removing tool marks during staining

Post by GPipe »

My question is: When sanding to the next higher grit, do I need to sand it until I cannot see the tool marks left over from the previous sanding round?

I'm a newbie testing out the staining process. I'm using Fiebings leather dye. The colors used are listed in the photos. The stickie notes indicate the sanding (grit) and staining stages the test piece has undergone.

I'm pretty sure the answer is "yes" from what I've read on here, but I am concerned that if I completely sand off the marks, I would also be sanding off all the stain.

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d.huber
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Re: removing tool marks during staining

Post by d.huber »

No worries. Sand sand sand until those previous grit scratches are gone. If you don't, you'll never get a good finish.

I'd also recommend staining a little later. You can stain at early grits to make the scratches more visible, but you won't be sanding off your final stain until you've stained at 320. The last few pipes I finished didn't receive stain until 500 and I just used a heat gun to set the stain. Briar literally chugs stain when it's warm, even after it's been sanded to 500 grit.

Keep reading, too. There's more advice covering this on the forum.
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GPipe
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Re: removing tool marks during staining

Post by GPipe »

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll be back after much, much more sanding.
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d.huber
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Re: removing tool marks during staining

Post by d.huber »

GPipe wrote:Thanks for the quick reply. I'll be back after much, much more sanding.
Lol! Been there, buddy. I'll look out for an update in about 10 hours. :lol:
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GPipe
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Re: removing tool marks during staining

Post by GPipe »

OK, so I sanded off all the previous grit scratches but the briar looks virgin again. Did I just sand off all the stain?

In terms of color retention, my post-sanding test briar looks nothing like what Sasquatch posted in the following thread:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7052

I'm using a procedure very similar to that posted by Kurt further down in the thread linked above.

It just seems like I'm sanding off all the stain.
Charl
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Re: removing tool marks during staining

Post by Charl »

My first stain is just for making sure that I sand all the marks and scratches out. I do until 60 grit on the wheel, then stain, sand everything off with 150 by hand, and then go on with 220 etc. First stain that'll be part of the finished pipe is at 320 grit.
(Sorry - typo! until 80 grit on the wheel)
caskwith
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Re: removing tool marks during staining

Post by caskwith »

The basic rule of any sanding job is to get all of the scratches out from the previous grit before moving up a level. The more sanding you can do at the disc, the better. As Charl says he goes up to 80grit which is a good start, I do this when working on a sandblast, for working on smooths I have sanding pads that take me all he way up to 500 if I need it so when it comes to the hand sanding stages I have a good base and can spend my time concentrating on the areas you can't get to with the disc.
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Sasquatch
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Re: removing tool marks during staining

Post by Sasquatch »

I don't stain at all till I'm through 320, then I wipe it on pretty heavy and lit it sit. The pictures in that thread are after gentle sanding with 400 or 500 grit paper, and quite possibly more than one rinse/repeat cycle.

Working at 200 grit, you are probably scrubbing most of the color back off.
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e Markle
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Re: removing tool marks during staining

Post by e Markle »

I agree with everything that's been mentioned so far, and I wanted to add that as a general rule (it's tough to follow on a pipe) you want to sand with the grain. It's largely irrelevant with either rough shaping or final sanding (say 600 grit), but it certainly doesn't hurt when you can.
caskwith
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Re: removing tool marks during staining

Post by caskwith »

Just out of interest while we are on the subject, what grits do you stop sanding at?
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jogilli
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Re: removing tool marks during staining

Post by jogilli »

600 grit... but that's after much sanding and the 600 grit paper isn't new, fresh, and it doesn't even sand that good... mainly I use it to bring the grain to my final phase before I hit the pipe w/white polish... then a week or so of patience and time devoted to bringing the shine on

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e Markle
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Re: removing tool marks during staining

Post by e Markle »

caskwith wrote:Just out of interest while we are on the subject, what grits do you stop sanding at?
300,000 then I buff them by *gently* blowing on them. Too hard, and you'll mar the surface.


Usually 600. If I need to, I have up to 1500, but that's just crazy.
wdteipen
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Re: removing tool marks during staining

Post by wdteipen »

I only sand up to 600 on smooths. I sand stems up to 800. I sand tenons up to 3000 then use compound on a paper towel to polish them without reshaping or rounding over edges.
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Sasquatch
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Re: removing tool marks during staining

Post by Sasquatch »

400.

Brown Trip is 420 so sanding at 9000 grit and then going to tripoli is a waste of time.
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GPipe
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Re: removing tool marks during staining

Post by GPipe »

OK, got some advice from a forum member and I tried it on my test pieces.

Applying the stain very, very heavy and letting it dry, rather than burning it off, has resulted in the wood taking the color much better.
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Re: removing tool marks during staining

Post by mcgregorpipes »

Sasquatch wrote:400.

Brown Trip is 420 so sanding at 9000 grit and then going to tripoli is a waste of time.

sure i just skip sanding and start shaping with some 60 grit tripoli (think gravel in buffing wheel)

i think 400 grit on a sanding wheel will still take off material vs buffing wheel is only polishing (every try to sand out a scratch on the brown trip wheel?) so is the progression up to 600 grit for taking out micro imperfections or taking off the top layer on stain? i've only hand sanded past 400
caskwith
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Re: removing tool marks during staining

Post by caskwith »

Interesting, I have tried stopping hand sanding at 500 before buffing and I always find micro scratches, so I tend to go up to 1000 unless its a natural no stain in which case 500 is enough.
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