Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

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Phil-Up
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Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

Post by Phil-Up »

Sorry for the lengthy post, but this is an introduction and I also have some questions on purchasing a motor for sanding and buffing. I’m 67 and have been retired for some years now. Years ago I used to make custom knives (sold them all), but I still have some of the equipment I used. Been smoking a pipe for quite a few years and I suddenly want to try my hand at making some. I’ll start out with some kits and then see what shakes. As a matter of fact I already started on one and that led to the questions I have on motors as I’m admittedly a complete idiot when it comes to electronics and such.


I still have a Wilton 72” belt grinder (NOT variable speed), 12 speed drill press, 9” bench top band saw, Craftsman grinder (which I used for polishing the blades and handles), and various other tools. I simply thought that I could put the belt grinder to good use with an assortment of belts, and also the buffer I used on knives, but while working on a briar kit I soon realized that things were not going to work out that smoothly. The Wilton belt grinder (stock image pictured) works great with the contact wheel (not pictured) for quickly removing material, and I mean FAST! I then used the open platen, also pictured for finer sanding and it’s there that I ran into some problems.

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] Even though the motor is rated at 1725 RPM it seems a tad too aggressive when sanding. Even when I use a light touch with 600 grit belts on the open platen it seems to quickly leave flat spots. I suppose it’s manageable, but that brings me to the buffer I have which is rated at 3580 RPM. While wax buffing an older pipe I quickly realized that it’s just too damn fast. Worked like a charm for polishing knife blades and buffing knife handles, but for pipes, not so well.

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So with that I thought I could possibly kill two birds with one stone by purchasing a decent motor at 1725 RPM and use it with the Beall wood buff set and the 4” J.Alan French wheel sanding disk. However, I’m quite confused about the proper motor to buy? Living on a pension isn’t very conducive to high expenditures so I’m trying to keep the cost down here to a manageable level (aren’t we all). I found two motors at a somewhat reasonable price, but I’m hesitant to purchase one as I honestly don’t know what the hell to purchase. Both are 1725 RPM and one HP, but other than that I’m confused. The first one is described as:

Grizzly G2905 Single-Phase Motor, 1 HP – 1725 RPM - amps at 110v/220v: 15.4/7.7. – 5/8” shaft


However, I’m very concerned about the vent openings next to the shaft as that might seem to suck up the sawdust and buffing compound. I guess my concern might be justified as it also states in the description: these high quality motors are excellent replacement motors for use in relatively clean environments. ideal for drill presses fan and bench machinery all motors are dual voltage (110/220v) capacitor start.

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___________________________________________________________________________

The other motor I have my eye on is described as:
AC MOTOR, 1HP, 1725RPM, 1PH, 115V/208-230V, 56C/TEFC
Single phase –Capacitor Start - 5/8’ Shaft




Image

At least this one is closed and would seem to hold up better under sanding and buffing conditions, but I’m not even sure if this would be the proper one to get? I imagine I would have to attach a cord to it, but would I have to do anything else to it? Then again, you may possibly have better suggestions for a decently priced motor and where to purchase one? Any and all help would be most greatly appreciated.
~I started out with nothing, and still have most of it.~
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sandahlpipe
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Re: Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

Post by sandahlpipe »

First, welcome to the forum!

I think either motor would work just fine. Generally, you'll need to wire in a power cord when you buy one.

I have this motor from harbor freight and it does well: http://www.harborfreight.com/12-hp-gene ... 67839.html

When I feel the need to upgrade, I'm going to get one with a VFD so I can vary the speed, but for now, it's adequate. I use a separate one for buffing than sanding, but you can get by on one in a pinch.

Hope to see some of your work here soon. I'd love to see your knives as well!
---
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oklahoma red
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Re: Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

Post by oklahoma red »

Welcome to the zoo!
I'm not one of them but there are some others in here that are also into knife making.
Also amongst the denizens are some that utilize belt sanders for shaping and with great success. I personally would advise you to go the wheel route as I consider it to be a more versatile shaping method. You mention JAlan wheels. I use them and they are a great product. If you can swing it, get several for different grits. It's a lot easier to change wheels than paper. I use the Beall arbor and it takes about 10 seconds to swap wheels.
Also, for sake of versatility, I would steer you toward a half horse 3450 rpm motor with variable frequency drive. I have two of them and as far as VFD goes this source gives you great bang for the buck:
Automationdirect.com
Motor: MTR-P50-3BD36 ($87)
Drive: GS1-20P5 ($117) Edit: GS1-20P5 if your input is 220V. GS1-10P5 if the input is 110V.
The motor is 208 three phase but the drive takes care of that. 110V input, 208 3PH output to the motor. There is wiring and programming the drive involved but I figured it out and I'm certainly no electrician. The motor is also totally enclosed and fan cooled. Both the motor and the drive are Chinese but for once I have no qualms with the quality.
Nate King is putting together a new shop in a joint effort with some other makers and they've got a whole row of these motors set up.
Good luck with your endeavor!
Last edited by oklahoma red on Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Phil-Up
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Re: Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

Post by Phil-Up »

Thanks for the welcome and input/suggestions. I actually thought about getting a VFD for the Wilton belt grinder but I quickly put that aside for several reasons. Number one is that I had no idea which one to buy, aside from the expense of one, and even if I did purchase the proper one I'd more likely than not hit a brick wall in being able to properly hook it up. The second reason being is that it just might very well be a waste of time and money and rather put towards a proper motor for use with a sanding wheel and for use with buffing/polishing.

That's not to say that the belt grinder will come in handy for removing material quickly when the need arises, and it can indeed do that quite proficiently. Seeing that I'm just delving into this with some briar kits (hopefully shaping stems will come later), but hey... ya gotta start someplace! With money being very tight I simply have to keep it simple for now and see what transpires.

A different motor in combination with a VDF might very well be the way to go in the long run, but for now it's best I keep it simple (cheaper) and I'll probably go with the enclosed cased motor (the blue one) and see how it goes. After all, it's only going for about $119.00 and only a few dollars more than the one at Harbor Freight. Hopefully, it's a better quality motor than what they offer, but time will only tell. That, and considering that I also have to purchase the Beall buffing combo and the J.Alan French wheel sanding disk I'll be financially tapped out for sometime. Granted, I'd like to buy a few J.Alan French wheels seeing that they seem like a real pain in the ass to change from one grit to another, but at $80.00 a pop... no freaking way. Of course if anyone has a cheaper alternative to these I'm all ears. I was looking at the 5" hook & loop pads offered by Vermont Freehand (see image), but I have absolutely no idea if if these are a good option or not? Of course those with more experience than I have could possibly help me out here. Once again, thanks for the input and I'll more likely than not have another one thousand and one questions to ask. Then again, make that a thousand and two questions. :wink:

Image

5" hook & loop sanding pads
~I started out with nothing, and still have most of it.~
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sandahlpipe
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Re: Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

Post by sandahlpipe »

I use the hook and loop discs and they work great for very rough shaping. I had the French wheel and got rid of it because I like doing the final part of shaping with files and sandpaper anyways. If you get the hook and loop discs, be sure to round over the sandpaper over the edge of the wheel or you will get gouges. The J. Alan wheels apparently give you a little more precision on the bowl shank junction, but it's a learning curve either way.
---
Fail early, fail often. Your success depends on it.

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http://sandahlpipe.com
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Phil-Up
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Re: Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

Post by Phil-Up »

sandahlpipe wrote:I use the hook and loop discs and they work great for very rough shaping. I had the French wheel and got rid of it because I like doing the final part of shaping with files and sandpaper anyways. If you get the hook and loop discs, be sure to round over the sandpaper over the edge of the wheel or you will get gouges. The J. Alan wheels apparently give you a little more precision on the bowl shank junction, but it's a learning curve either way.
Thanks for your experience with the J. Alan wheels and I'll certainly take that under consideration. As for learning curves I'm all too well of them after having first attempted making knives 30+ years ago. First the motor and then... robbing a bank? One step at a time. :wink:
~I started out with nothing, and still have most of it.~
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Tyler
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Re: Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

Post by Tyler »

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=8903&p=84671&hilit=+Disk#p84671

Having tried most of the options, I strongly suggest a quick read of the above linked post. I fear it is in poor taste to link to myself, but why type it again? :D

I cannot stress enough how superior the last option I talk about is. It is also the cheapest.

As for motor, if you want to buy Jeff's disks you will be largely wasting your money without a VFD or multiple motors at varying speeds. Higher grit on Jeffs disks work best at slower speeds, IMO.
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Phil-Up
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Re: Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

Post by Phil-Up »

Been giving it all some serious thought and I’ll more likely than not go with the motor I thought of purchasing. I definitely need a lower RPM motor for buffing and polishing and I’ll also give the hook and loop pads a try on it. That, and of course the Beall buffing system. I hate to see my expensive Wilton belt grinder go unused, albeit it’s quite good at removing material very fast. I was thinking of purchasing some 1/4” felt padding and placing that on the platen attachment with some adhesive and on top of that possibly a strip of graphite platen backing to reduce the heat buildup and wear. Nothing ventured nothing gained and at this point and juncture I have no alternative but to try and keep the cost down.
~I started out with nothing, and still have most of it.~
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Tyler
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Re: Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

Post by Tyler »

You could always sell the Wilton.
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Phil-Up
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Re: Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

Post by Phil-Up »

Believe me, I've thought about it many times over the years. A lot of would be knife makers out there who would love to have it considering the extremely high prices for these types of machines these days. Granted, it doesn't have variable speed (they didn't have them back then), but it did a damn good job for me and it's still in great condition.
~I started out with nothing, and still have most of it.~
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andrew
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Re: Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

Post by andrew »

First of all, welcome.

I made all my wheels from 1/8" sheet aircraft (7075 I believe) aluminum. They are amazing and well balanced (under 1750 rpm :) ).

The felt to mount the sandpaper was more expensive than the metal. My wood chipper/shaping wheel is also sheet aluminum with no backing for the grinding wheel (it's bigger too).

If you have a friend who happens to be a machinist, have them make you a 5 inch arbor. It would take them very little time and you will enjoy the results. The beall arbor is a little lacking in length and quality. The tolerances are big since they have to "fit" many shafts. I'm having some problems attaching images, but give me an hour and I'll try to have them up.
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andrew
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Re: Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

Post by andrew »

Well, I'm getting a message that the board attachment quota has been reached... no images tonight.
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Tyler
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Re: Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

Post by Tyler »

andrew wrote:Well, I'm getting a message that the board attachment quota has been reached... no images tonight.
Fixed. Sorry.
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Phil-Up
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Re: Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

Post by Phil-Up »

Change of mind.
I've opted for a 1/2 HP motor with a variable speed drive. After more thought this seems like a more logical approach in the long run. Too late now as I just pulled the trigger on it and oklahoma red has been gracious enough to help me out with the wiring, etc. if I need it.
Probably will... :wink:
~I started out with nothing, and still have most of it.~
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Tyler
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Re: Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

Post by Tyler »

Good choice.
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andrew
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Re: Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

Post by andrew »

You will love the vfd. Good call!
socrates
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Re: Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

Post by socrates »

Wilting belt Sanders is awesome! Wish I had one in my work area. Welcome aboard!

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wdteipen
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Re: Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

Post by wdteipen »

Yep, you made the right choice.
Wayne Teipen
Teipen Handmade Briar Pipes
http://www.teipenpipes.com
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Phil-Up
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Re: Introduction, and motor questions/suggestions

Post by Phil-Up »

Yeah, I’m confident I made the right decision in the long run. It’s taking me some time to get it all together as I’m building a box for the VFD which will have an exhaust fan on top and a dust filter on the bottom of the box. I finally finished the box and will be getting the fan today. After that it’s all a matter of wiring the whole mess together and hoping I don’t blow the whole freaking thing up in not wiring it correctly! I’m doing all of this work in my living room of all places as right now it’s colder than a meat locker in my work room so I might as well do it in some comfort. If I find, hopefully, that all of the wiring was done properly it’s then a matter of programming the VFD (that should prove to be interesting :roll: ). After that I’ll then haul the whole mess down into my workroom and arrange how I want the motor and VFD set up. I also ordered some parts for a dust collection system that I can easily hook up to my shop-vac. For what it’s worth when I get it all set up I’ll try to post some pictures of it.

As for the Wilton belt grinder, which happens to be a relatively expensive machine, I’ll keep it for now. Seeing that I don’t have a lathe, and not knowing if and when I’d be capable of affording one, the belt grinder might very well be of use in shaping stems. Even though I no longer make knives that damn thing has come in handy at times with different odd and end home repairs.
~I started out with nothing, and still have most of it.~
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