Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

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Massis
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Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by Massis »

I'm finally out to buy a (semi-)decent lathe in the next few weeks. I had my mind made up, but now my second choice lathe has gone on promotion, making it roughly €600 cheaper than my first choice, so now I'm no longer sure which one to buy.

I hoped you guys can talk some sense into me.

Lathe 1: The Optimum TU2506
http://www.optimum-machines.com/product ... index.html

Image
Pros:
- 400 V (runs smoother)
- 55cm between centers (+10 compared to lathe 2)
- china made, but checked in Germany by a decent company, who install german electronics & bearings before reselling.
- I know several pipemakers using this lathe or the previous version of it.
- I have a drill press from "Quantum", which is Optimums "B-brand", and I really like it

Cons:
- Pricing: €1520 for just the lathe
- tooling: 3 jaw chuck & 2 steady centers is all that's included
- this really is the absolute max size I can fit in my shop, making it quite the squeeze to fit in
- I'm not sure the tailstock has a locking lever to lock it to the bed (it might be a locking nut as in the image, which is rather annoying, some sites claim the new version has lever lock though)

Lathe number 2: HBM 450 "complete"
https://www.hbm-machines.com/producten/ ... ldraaibank

Image
Pros:
- Pricing: normally runs €1240, but now it's on sale for just €990
- tooling: Includes a steady rest, follow rest, 3 jaw chuck, 4 jaw chuck
- 15cm shorter so I'll have a bit more wiggle room to fit in in the shop

Cons:
- it's the same lathe underneath most likely, but without the german upgrades
- 10cm less between centers
- runs on 230V
- I'm not sure the tailstock has a locking lever to lock it to the bed (it might be a locking nut which is rather annoying)
caskwith
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Re: Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by caskwith »

I have worked on an optimum lathe, it was not good.
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sandahlpipe
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Re: Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by sandahlpipe »

I've not worked on either one. Both appear to be better than the 7x14 mini lathe I use. I wish I could be of more help.
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pipedreamer
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Re: Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by pipedreamer »

Look into it more,there has to be something better out there!!
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Tyler
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Re: Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by Tyler »

Can you rearrange or remodel the shop? For that kind of money, they look like a bad buy for pipe making.
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jogilli
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Re: Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by jogilli »

if your going to buy one I know a few guys in Germany that have the optimum and are not so unhappy with it.. the second is too small.. mine is just a smidgen bigger, but just that little bit goes a long way...

I'd pass on both personally

james

here is site in Germany.. if I remember correctly your in Belgium.. its a good place to get motors and they also have some lathes

http://www.paulimot.de/epages/paulimot. ... s/12500400
Massis
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Re: Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by Massis »

I think you guys might be underestimating the prices of lathes over here in Europe...

for €1500 (that is Excluding VAT, including VAT the optimum runs €1850 in the cheapest shop, others sell it for up to €2100) there is no better lathe you can buy new that I've come across in the last year of searching...
I really don't want to get into buying an old "decent" lathe such as a Myford, AI, South Bend or an Emco as I'm not expert enough to restore it to full functionality. I've done one complete missbuy with my current Myford Super7.

@Tyler: I'll have to rearrange for this lathe anyway, but I just don't want to go bigger than this. My shop is only 2m80 by 3m80 and has 2 doors and a window + a folding stair to the attic which needs room to come down.
I CAN technically fit something bigger, but every cm of lathe is taking away a cm of space on my workbench which includes sanding motors, belt sander, polishing setup, drill press, bench grinder, etc... That workbench is only just large enough as it stands currently.
The Optimum is a 10x22 lathe, a lot bigger than my current 7 x 19 MyFord.

Why do you think they'd be bad for pipemaking?


@Pipedreamer: look into it more? I've been keeping an eye on second hand lathes for a year now, and searching the web for what's available new in my price range...
I can't really do more unless someone enlightens me.


@James: yes I'm in Belgium.
I know paulimot, their lathes are basicly the same as the Optimum lathes and the HBM ones as far as I've found. Also made in china in the same factories. As far as I am aware, Paulimot doesn't tweak them to German standards like Optimum does. Have you heard differently perhaps?

Other than these you've got Contimac, Sieg, Bernardo, Mac-Tool and dozens of other chinese copies of these same lathes. One that stands out slightly is Huvema which is "the original clone" of Emco, but they're priced accordingly.

For most of these "brands" (I consider paulimot one of them), it's a matter of getting stuff from china and selling it straight from the crate.
For optimum/quantum I know that they do the checkup I referred to earlier and I know there are tons of retailers for them nearby (while most of the other brands only have one -often shady - reseller)

As far as I can tell and although I might be wrong, even Precision Matthews in the US is a taiwanese clone to the likes of these brands, albeit on the better side of the spectrum (probably because they're taiwanese and not chinese)
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jogilli
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Re: Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by jogilli »

The guys I know tht have optimum lathes aren't unhappy with them... I paid 600 euro for a smaller rotwerk c2 .. And am happy with it... Even when tweaked to German standards they still have their quirks... I have to put pressure on my quick change tool so it runs true when cutting tenons... I'm fine with that.. As I'm not paying 10000 euro for the lathe I want...

A machinist buddy of mine just bought the optimum and he's quite content with his... But he has a machinist background and can easily adapt it to his needs... My only warning would be the cross slide.. It's a chine machine.... And everybody I know has some issue with their cross slides...

If you are buying one of them the optimim would be my choice... Look up the rotwerk c2 and you'll get a chuckle.. But again... I know of two other makers that use that lathe also.. And are just as continent as I am

Not everybody has a 4 car garage like my American brethern ... Haha

James
Massis
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Re: Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by Massis »

Well you can't pay Lada and expect Ferrari now can you? :-)

But I know for instance Dirk Claessen used to run a Quantum lathe (Optimum's B-brand) and now uses the previous version of the TU2506 (the Optimum 240x550). Sabina Santos from Portugal uses an Optimum lathe as well.

Like you said: they might have their quirks, but my current myford's accuracy is somewhere around 1mm I think. even with pressure on the cross slide it won't run true anymore. Not to mention the headstock & tailstock are out of alignment...
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jogilli
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Re: Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by jogilli »

Haha

Which ever you chose .. Chose well..

James
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Tyler
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Re: Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by Tyler »

Massis wrote: @Tyler: I'll have to rearrange for this lathe anyway, but I just don't want to go bigger than this. My shop is only 2m80 by 3m80 and has 2 doors and a window + a folding stair to the attic which needs room to come down.
I CAN technically fit something bigger, but every cm of lathe is taking away a cm of space on my workbench which includes sanding motors, belt sander, polishing setup, drill press, bench grinder, etc... That workbench is only just large enough as it stands currently.
The Optimum is a 10x22 lathe, a lot bigger than my current 7 x 19 MyFord.

Why do you think they'd be bad for pipemaking?
Mostly because I misread the specs. :D I saw the "center height" and interpreted that as the swing, which would be uncomfortably small. I now see the swing over bed is double that, making it a much more reasonable choice.
Massis
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Re: Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by Massis »

Haha brilliant. I've yet to come across a 5"x22" lathe to be honest :-)
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Tyler
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Re: Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by Tyler »

Massis wrote:Haha brilliant. I've yet to come across a 5"x22" lathe to be honest :-)
Yeah, but it's European. Everything is weird that European. :D
Massis
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Re: Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by Massis »

We're the weird ones?

Image

PS: I confirmed through their website that the new version of the Optimum 240x550 is the Optiturn 2506 which I showed in my first post, and that this new version has the clamping lever for the headstock.

That's good new, because having such a lever on my myford makes it rather obvious that not having one would annoy the hell out of me!
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Tyler
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Re: Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by Tyler »

Massis wrote:We're the weird ones?

Image

PS: I confirmed through their website that the new version of the Optimum 240x550 is the Optiturn 2506 which I showed in my first post, and that this new version has the clamping lever for the headstock.

That's good new, because having such a lever on my myford makes it rather obvious that not having one would annoy the hell out of me!

Haha! As an engineer, I've used both systems. Metric makes for easier math, For sure.

The lever is a very nice feature. I've had two lathes without it, and two with. I HATE without.
caskwith
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Re: Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by caskwith »

Tailstock lever is a must I think, though I have a nice system on my proxxon. A clutch is the thing I really don't think I could do without on a new lathe.
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Tyler
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Re: Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by Tyler »

caskwith wrote:Tailstock lever is a must I think, though I have a nice system on my proxxon. A clutch is the thing I really don't think I could do without on a new lathe.

What does a clutch on a lathe do?
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Re: Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by LatakiaLover »

Tyler wrote:
caskwith wrote:Tailstock lever is a must I think, though I have a nice system on my proxxon. A clutch is the thing I really don't think I could do without on a new lathe.

What does a clutch on a lathe do?
Allows starting and stopping the spindle without shutting off the motor?
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
caskwith
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Re: Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by caskwith »

George has got it, if you check out my videos you can see it in action, the spindle stops but the motor continues. It allows for faster and safer working with less wear on the motor and smoother control.
Massis
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Re: Yet another "this or that lathe" topic

Post by Massis »

My current myford has a clutch, but a decent on/off switch would do just fine for me honestly.
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