let me help you, help me

[the rev]

I have not been getting the information I was hoping for to help me make a good decision. I think it is my fault. I have been asking the wrong questions.

Please explain to me why I will be sorry in a year or two if I buy one of these two lathes:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/9-x-19- ... athe/G4000

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-x-22 ... athe/G0602

I know you seem to think getting the Jet for almost double the price would be better, but I want to know specifically why? I am not making parts for engines where 1/64th tolerance is not acceptable. Why will I bang my head and say, I wish I would not have gotten this lathe if I buy one of these?

rev

[Alden]

I have a Jet 9x20 and I wish I had more lathe. The only thing I could tell you with the Grizzly is you will probably wish you had more lathe too.
From what I have read, they are pretty much made in the same factories. The difference is how much the retailer wants to pay for the lathe. I.E. the Grizzly is cheaper because many parts that are metal on the Jet are plastic on the Grizzly. Many parts may be manufactured with cheaper metal on the Grizzly. Whatever the differences are, it is cheaper because they cut more corners to bring the price down.
I dont have experience to back any of that up, just repeating the argument I heard when I researched the same thing.
On the other end, you have companies like Matthews that are bringing in the same chinese lathes as everyone else, but theirs have a pretty good reputation for quality. That comes down to the details they make sure are done right at the factory. YMMV.

[the rev]

the second link is more lathe, its the 10x22 weighs almost 150lbs more, and is still 800 dollars cheaper than the jet 9x20

rev

[Gershom]

Another thing to consider is customer service. I don't know how Grizzly is but Jet's is amazing.

[Alden]

Its a good size, you will be able to do most everything with it. Still want a 12" swing someday though !

[the rev]

our shop at work is all Grizzly tools, and they have been very good about helping us, getting our parts right away ect.

rev

[andrew]

I would probably not go for the first one if I had a choice. The second lathe has a bigger bore diameter. That can come in handy. I think I'm a tad confused about what you're really trying to get at. It's pretty well understood that a jet lathe is a better machine. The Grizzly will probably do just fine for what you need for now. I would venture to say that most of us would buy a larger lathe than we have now if given the chance. I know I would. Unless you buy an amazing/expensive lathe you will always find some feature you wish you had or had more of. Don't stress too much, just pick one and start making shavings and dust. Good luck.

[the rev]

What I am getting at is I can buy the jet 9x20 at around 2,000, I will have almost no money left for tooling, and that will take a while to get. Right now I am not happy with the choices on craigs list for a used lathe. So, if I were to buy the 10x22 grizzly, why would I be sorry I didn't buy the smaller jet at the much higher price? Are there things that the jet can do the grizzly can't? Is it so much less precise as to make it difficult to do what I need? are the parts going to break down on me? Consider also that I will not be shaping on the lathe much.

I am thinking, if I buy the grizzly, I can buy a grand worth of tools, and get started now. Otherwise I need to keep saving, and hope for a good used lathe to become available or that I sell a bunch of pipes and can save the money for a jet, which will be smaller than I will want according to some of you.

is that a better understanding of what I am trying to figure out? I know the jet is better, but the matthews is better still, I am sure that a $30,000 lathe is the perfect lathe for me, but that is unrealistic. So I am getting less than the best how much less til I get to the point where I might as well get a wood lathe

rev

[caskwith]

Get the grizzley and the tooling, get started making pipes.

[Alden]

Sounds like you are set on the Grizzly, so buy it. It will make pipes

[the rev]

I am making pipes, I have a good drill press and the other tools I need. I can wait and my heart is not set on the Grizzly. I have just not heard someone explain what it is about the jet that is better, and if it is so much better that its worth waiting for and paying much more money for. If that is true, I will impatiently save and purchase the Jet. I hope I am not frustrating you guys, I don't mean to, I just want to do the best thing. It is often not a choice between good and bad, but good and better that causes pause.

rev

[sethile]

Everything will work smoother on the Jet. It's not so much that it will do things better, or more precisely, or do things you can't do on the Grizzlies, but I'm almost certain you would enjoy working with it more. Capacity might be an issue sometimes, but not that often...

If I were you I'd see if you can get some time with the lathes you're considering, or at least check them out in person. See how the parts move.

My own lathe story: I started with the bottom of the barrel Chinese 9x20, which is the Harbor Freight. I got into it very cheaply, and it was much better than nothing, and I learned a ton about lathes and tooling in the process of moding it, and trying to keep the thing working. But I hated it every time I used it, and I still hate it. I use it to prep Delrin tenons now. It does that fine, but I still hate it! I made a few stems on it this last weekend while my good lathe was tied up and was reminded just how bad a machine it is.

While saving up for a better lathe I had the opportunity to use the Jet 9x20, a Grizzly 9x20, and a Precision Matthews 11x27 and 12x36. For me the machines that impressed me the most were the Jet 9x20 and PM 12x36. They were both a pleasure to use. The others had issues, at least for me... I've had the Precision Mathews 12x36 for 2 years now, and I love working with this machine! I enjoy the added capacity a lot, but even more, I just love how well everything works and how solid it is.

So far I have not heard anyone with a Grizzly say they love the machine. If I were you I'd at least want to kick the tires a bit before taking the plunge. Or, do what I did.. That being to buy a piece of junk to get you by while you save up and educate yourself about what you really want.

[the rev]

thanks those are the kinds of answers I am looking for

rev

[Sasquatch]

Rev, I think you're getting the drift now - it's not like the Grizzly is junk, but for a guy standing at a machine for 8 hours a day, the little details in how it works, how easy, how often.... they make a difference. The Griz is gonna be so incredible for you for awhile it'll blow your mind. Maybe you'll always like it, certainly you'll get used to it. It may be that some day you upgrade, maybe not.

God knows I could use a better lathe, but I'm dumping money into a compressor first, and better dust collection second, unless the lathe conks out. Nobody else on this board would use what I use. But I have the damn thing, and I'm used to it.

"Primo" tools are worth it if you use them every day and your mortgage payment depends on it. When I buy construction tools, I look for value, durability. But I also look for little features - hand feel, weight (1/2 pound all day is a LOT - hell yes, I'll take the Magnesium alloy housing). I paid 39 bucks for my first jigsaw, 179 for my second, and 289 for my third. The third is NICE. Smooth, strong. Wow. I get better results with it, but more importanltly, it works every time I turn it on.

In your shoes, I'd buy what I could afford to tool up. Use it, get gooder, make some money... if you want to upgrade, sell the thing and buy what you need, and at that point, you'll know exactly what you need.

[Kelhammer]

I will chime in here. I know nothing about making a pipe, but I know a lot about machines. Simply put you get what you pay for. All ways go one size bigger. If you settle for what you can afford today, as earlier stated, you will love your new machine. The small lathes are great for a hobbyist. If you plan on really using this thing however, there is a very good chance you will wear it out. You will become increasingly more frustrated about a growing number of limitations. You will end up buying a better machine. When you buy a quality machine, it does every thing you think it should be able to do. When you skimp, you find yourself trying things you think your machine should do, but due to cheap parts, it can't. This is what everyone praising the Jet is trying to tell you, but it is a very difficult thing to put into words. As a professional machining and tooling consultant I see this same scenario often. To me you will be better off saving for what you really want. The well built, industry proven machine is a once in a lifetime purchase.

Andy

[the rev]

There are two questions that your post brings up in my mind:

one, I can actually get a bigger machine if I get the grizzly

two, nobody seems to be able to tell me what the jet can do that the grizzly cannot. I get that it may not be as smooth, or certain functions are simpler. But not one person has said, "the grizlly won't be able to do this but the jet will" That is what I am looking for, even just one thing

rev

[Sasquatch]

*Sigh* They'll do the same stuff.

All saws saw, all lathes spin. Some tools use better bearings that last longer, some tools are milled to tighter tolerances than others. These tools cost more. They are, generally speaking, a lot easier to get good results on, and you get those results for 30 years.

Grizzly makes reasonably good tools. JET makes very good tools. The Grizzly will work for you. But for God's sake, go LOOK at the machines, see what is plastic vs metal, see what's a pain in the ass on the Grizzly vs the JET (or vice versa).

[the rev]

thanks Sas, my problem is that I have never used a lathe before, not even once

rev

[Sasquatch]

Yep. And if you set up and operate the Griz, you'll be like "Wow, this is the cat's ASS." You'll learn to use it, get good at it, and presumably make a 1000 pipes on it without much trouble. Grizzly tools aren't junk.

I think it's a perfectly reasonable approach.

Maybe some day you'll outgrow the Griz, or wear some part out. Maybe not. Maybe some day you'll get a hankering to work on a 1955 Southbend and.... fine. Or maybe you'll use someone's JET and say "Wow, that is a fantastic lathe, I gotta have one." or maybe you'll use it and say "Huh, I'm glad I bought the Grizzly."

Around here, you are talking to guys who stand in front of this machine 10 hours a day, and .... little things add up. I reject tools for all kinds of reaons. You could offer me a circular saw that is 5 pounds lighter than my saw and twice as strong. If it doesn't have a rafter hook, it's NO use to me.

I really think you need to go look at the machines. Find out what's plastic, find out what rattles on either. Then make your choice.

[oklahoma red]

Get the best and cry once.
Chas.