Freehand drilling question

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mightysmurf8201
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Freehand drilling question

Post by mightysmurf8201 »

So I've noticed that freehand drilling is really starting to become more popular among pipe makers, and it's made me wonder something. I know that the high quality spoon bits that a few people make are the recommended tool, and that spade bits are a big no no. But what about custom ground S&D bits? Are they safe and effective for freehand drilling? Just curious.
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baweaverpipes
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Re: Freehand drilling question

Post by baweaverpipes »

NO!
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mightysmurf8201
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Re: Freehand drilling question

Post by mightysmurf8201 »

Your answer suggests that there could be some very undesirable consequences!
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Re: Freehand drilling question

Post by wdteipen »

Probably worse than spade bits. S&D bits can really grab and when they do they don't like to let go.
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mightysmurf8201
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Re: Freehand drilling question

Post by mightysmurf8201 »

Noted.
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oklahoma red
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Re: Freehand drilling question

Post by oklahoma red »

Spoon bits, for all intent and purpose, are reamers. They have a single cutting edge and enlarge a pilot hole to whatever shape the bit has been ground.
A re-ground S & D bit could potentially break a wrist before you had a chance to let go of the stummel.
The bit used to drill the pilot hole is usually modified to keep it from grabbing and self-feeding. I like to use spoon bits in the tail stock because if they are properly sharpened they cut unbelievably smooth.
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Re: Freehand drilling question

Post by caskwith »

Drill bits grab when they go off axis (easily done when freehand drilling), a spade or twist drill will grab badly and while with a spade bit you might be able to hold on as they are a bit flexible, this will not be a case on a 3/4" twist drill, with a powerful lathe it will happily break, your fingers, arm wrist, whatever.
Spoons don't grab, or rather are a lot less likely to grab because they only have one cutting edge and because of their shape they fill 50% of the hole they are drilling thus making it much harder to go off axis enough to grab wood.
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Re: Freehand drilling question

Post by mightysmurf8201 »

Good info. Were it not for this forum, I'd probably be missing a finger/limb/eyeball by now.
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Re: Freehand drilling question

Post by Charl »

NO!
I'm from Africa, we use what we have. So, YES for me.
That doesn't mean that you have to be stupid though, like me. It does grab and you might lose some extremities.
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Re: Freehand drilling question

Post by E.L.Cooley »

Charl wrote:
NO!
I'm from Africa, we use what we have. So, YES for me.
That doesn't mean that you have to be stupid though, like me. It does grab and you might lose some extremities.
It's only a flesh wound.


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Albert.A
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Re: Freehand drilling question

Post by Albert.A »

I have experimented once or twice with this freehand drilling thing. I shaped a piece of scrap briar to a rough billiard shape (this was a piece of briar I knew I wouldn't be able to use).
And then I used a spade-bit I ground myself to freehand drill the tobacco chamber, in my Taig. Worked fine as far I a could tell, so I don't know what the fuzz is about. ;)

Although it was kinda scary, it did work (I prefer using my drillpress though, untill I get my big lathe set up properly) :)

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Re: Freehand drilling question

Post by oklahoma red »

Albert.A wrote:I have experimented once or twice with this freehand drilling thing. I shaped a piece of scrap briar to a rough billiard shape (this was a piece of briar I knew I wouldn't be able to use).
And then I used a spade-bit I ground myself to freehand drill the tobacco chamber, in my Taig. Worked fine as far I a could tell, so I don't know what the fuzz is about. ;)

Although it was kinda scary, it did work (I prefer using my drillpress though, untill I get my big lathe set up properly) :)

/Albert
I would definitely not recommend drilling with a spade bit on your "big lathe" when you get it set up for the reasons previously mentioned. If the bit had caught while doing this on your Taig most likely the drive belt would have started slipping IF you had a good grip on the stummel. You're not going to stop a larger metal lathe.
The whole idea behind freehand drilling (or shape first-drill second if you prefer) is to give you the ability to change the shape of the stummel as you go and to hopefully work around any flaws in the block. In so doing you lose the ability to secure the stummel for drilling unless you have the capability to make some very fancy and complex fixtures to clamp curved surfaces. Until you are ready to fully embrace the freehand method I strongly advise you to use your drill press for the sake of safety.
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Re: Freehand drilling question

Post by sandahlpipe »

A $100 spoon bit is cheaper than a visit to the doctor to get your wrist seen up. Sure, you may be able to do it, but everyone makes a mistake from time to time. With a spoon bit, a mistake will take far less toll on your hands than a spade or S&D bit. As I say this, I'm looking at a gash in my thumb I made when my spoon but caught on the chamber. So glad I was only using a spoon bit...


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Re: Freehand drilling question

Post by LatakiaLover »

I'm no lathe expert... I'm not even a lathe user.

But I have seen first hand what messing about with a lathe, or overconfidence when using it can result in, injury-wise. You do NOT want to go there.

New PMF'ers, please listen to the experienced PMF'ers about this stuff. It's exactly like gun safety---happens in an instant, and there's no going back.

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andrew
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Re: Freehand drilling question

Post by andrew »

I used a spade bit freehand once. That was dumb. I had a really good grip on the stummel so that stayed put. What didn't stay put was a huge chunk of my chamber, that came out quite nicely. Best case you'll ruin wood, worst case yourself.

(I guess the worst case would be to ruin your pipe, lathe and hand all in one swoop :) )

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Re: Freehand drilling question

Post by d.huber »

Listen to everyone who has strongly voiced that spade bits and s&d bits should not be used for free hand drilling.

I was stupid enough to try an s&d bit twice (I know) and luckily only escaped with minor injuries: one pulverized thumbnail (lost the nail) and one beat and bloody finger. The only reason worse didn't happen was because I was using a weak power drill at the time.

Do not attempt to free-hand drill with s&d bits.

Spade bits are dicey at best.

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Albert.A
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Re: Freehand drilling question

Post by Albert.A »

oklahoma red wrote:
Albert.A wrote:I have experimented once or twice with this freehand drilling thing. I shaped a piece of scrap briar to a rough billiard shape (this was a piece of briar I knew I wouldn't be able to use).
And then I used a spade-bit I ground myself to freehand drill the tobacco chamber, in my Taig. Worked fine as far I a could tell, so I don't know what the fuzz is about. ;)

Although it was kinda scary, it did work (I prefer using my drillpress though, untill I get my big lathe set up properly) :)

/Albert
I would definitely not recommend drilling with a spade bit on your "big lathe" when you get it set up for the reasons previously mentioned. If the bit had caught while doing this on your Taig most likely the drive belt would have started slipping IF you had a good grip on the stummel. You're not going to stop a larger metal lathe.
The whole idea behind freehand drilling (or shape first-drill second if you prefer) is to give you the ability to change the shape of the stummel as you go and to hopefully work around any flaws in the block. In so doing you lose the ability to secure the stummel for drilling unless you have the capability to make some very fancy and complex fixtures to clamp curved surfaces. Until you are ready to fully embrace the freehand method I strongly advise you to use your drill press for the sake of safety.
Chas.
Yeah, I guess I wasn't really clear. What I ment was that I will probably try freehand drilling again when I get my big lathe set up, with the correct bits! The thing I did on the taig is REALLY not something I would recomend actually using, I was just overly curious as always and wanted to see if it could be done. :) Because like the man says, a big lathe will not stop!!
sandahlpipe wrote:A $100 spoon bit is cheaper than a visit to the doctor to get your wrist seen up. Sure, you may be able to do it, but everyone makes a mistake from time to time. With a spoon bit, a mistake will take far less toll on your hands than a spade or S&D bit. As I say this, I'm looking at a gash in my thumb I made when my spoon but caught on the chamber. So glad I was only using a spoon bit...


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Ah, I'll have to disagree with you there! You see in Sweden healthcare is free! (although I think we have higher taxes than you do in the USA, but I think it's worth that for knowing you will get treated if you fall ill or something, without being ruined). ;)
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Re: Freehand drilling question

Post by sandahlpipe »

Ok. I didn't know you lived in Sweeden. From what I understand, some of the highest taxes in the world there. I'd rather pay my insurance premiums. Though when I visited Sweeden, it was some of the most beautiful landscapes in the world.
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Re: Freehand drilling question

Post by dogcatcher »

If you must "play" with a modified spade bit, at least cut off a good potion of the shank. The longer you leave the shank the more easily it is to bend, when it bends there will be hell t pay, so cut it as short as you can, but not too short.
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Re: Freehand drilling question

Post by Albert.A »

Well, I don't really know anything about the american tax system or anything, but I think we swedes pay about 32 % income tax, which sounds insanely much when I think about it, but it's all I know so i don't really have anything to compare to. But I think our pre-tax salaries are higher than the americans, so maybe that counterbalances a bit. All i know is that we swedes find it very cheap to buy things in the USA, like clothing and stuff. So when I see people camplaining about how expensive things are getting (americans on the internet), I don't really know what they're talking about.

Prime example: how much do you in america pay for a gallon of gasoline?

Okey, sorry, this has nothing to do with pipemaking, I just find things like this interesting to discuss. :)

And also, the problem with living somewhere beautiful is that you don't see it untill somone points it out to you! I have always found the Swedish landscape boring up untill reacently. :)

/Albert
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