Collecting most important infos for stickie cookbook threads

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alexanderfrese
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Collecting most important infos for stickie cookbook threads

Post by alexanderfrese »

As I said before on other threads: It might be very helpful if we distill some reoccuring Q&A into new, single threads. If we put something like that together, Kurt might make "stickies" from these newly composed threads in the matching areas, so that the newbie easily finds the information.
And I strongly believe we should not try to make "this has to be done this way" manuals. I would rather opt for collecting the multitude that maybe has got lost between all those other threads.

Please suggest some common themes to collect the infos about here. After that we might have to cut that down a bit, since it would not make sense to double the forum infos. It should really focus on those questions that are asked repeatedly.
And please – if you like – put yourself on a list for helping to evaluate and collect the info, so we don't put any stress on Kurt.
Any opinion welcome! Especially the newbies that have found some bits’n’pieces and wonder where the rest is hidden. But even the addicts might help by looking back over their forum experience.

Anyone willing to step in?
Who would later on be willing to find some time to collect the shattered infos?
Alexander Frese
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hazmat
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Post by hazmat »

hrm.. I"m the only one who's voted so far.

Alex.. I think this is a great idea. It would make finding specific information that much simpler if the different "tutorials" were centralized. And as you mentioned, it shouldn't be a definitive "this is The way, the ONLY way" type of thing, but could be sectioned out into like processes, i.e.

1. Stem How-Tos-
a. Alex's Process
b. Tyler's process.. etc..

All-in-all, no one process is the be-all-end-all of all processes available and some might find one way easier for a number of reasons than the others available to them...
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Post by josh_ford »

A great idea! Only problem is that forum traffic might slow down a bit. I know the only questions I ask have already been asked 20 times already. Make it easier for me though.

Josh
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Post by alexanderfrese »

Maybe I was not quite clear about it.
One way would be to set more sub more sub-areas. E.G.: Tools->Lathe, Tools->Drill Press, Tools->Rustication_Tools and so on.
Besides the fact that this would fulfill some sort of prejudice towards me beeing a German (There is no right thing to begin with, if it is not arranged and layed out painstakingly correct, do some extra rounds of planning before even beginning…), this would even increase the difficulties of finding things.
I have seen several threads starting from one point and developing a most interesting sideline that ould have to be called OT from the conservative pov.
And how to find these sidelines if not accidentally browsing the right sub-sub-sub-area?
So this is probably not the way to go.
I was thinking about those typical beginner questions that come up again and again. Not like: "Uhm, I have a piece of wood and a screwdriver, which way to go now?" but more like the one I started the idea from.
Most of the info within this forum has been collected around such questions. Remember: "There is no stupid question, but stupid answers!" But some of these are reoccurring and sometimes might be a bit annoying – for the one who asks (I know there is an answer somewhere, should I dare to ask again?) and for the one who answers (Why don't they read what is there?).
So I think there is a chance to distill the conclusion of some of these discussions (and the work processes behin them). But I have a strong feeling that would make up a "meta forum", which would be absurd to do. And – it would not be easy to maintain technically.
What just strikes me: If this platform (or a part of it) would be based on some sort of wiki-structure, then it would be easier to do some shared work on such cookbooks, even by including the several options within one process. For example: An article "Using a drill press on briar" might file the parts that go for everyone and then list up variants like "Tyler's mortise hack 2004" or "Kurt’s alignment workaround".
With a wiki structure this articles would still contain a variety of opinions and they would still be sort of dynamic.
But this still would cost lots of structural efforts or even a new forum base, don't know. I know there are wiki modules for CMS-systems, but I don't know how powerful they are, and how easy to maintain.

Hmm…

Any more opinions?
Some real software geeks step in?
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mahaffy
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Post by mahaffy »

Alex, this reminds me of the days when hyper-links came into being; I wonder how many of us downloaded the Bible in ASCII and soon realized what a chore it would be to make it searchable via a concordance of our own. What clunky days those were . . . for years! But yes, in a way your idea has merit, and yes the same questions are asked endlessly, and answered with a marvelously parental patience! But by making a recipe book, the personal side (your eyebrows go up at that, but it's true), the part that makes this board a pleasant and even sustaining experience, would be defeated, I think.
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Post by alexanderfrese »

John,
you're perfectly right about the personal style. So my eyebrows don't go up, they rather make a thoughtful impression since this is a an important question! And as I said before, I too adore the patience and overall attitude of the members here. Simple cookbooks would really push this style to a background value, make it more unpersonal. I am fully aware of that implication and it does not make me happy. I am not too much into dynamic implementation of new software structures just for the sake of themselves, believe me!
Maybe this is a duality within communication structures like a forum that we can not solve. But I am still thinking about that wiki style - parallel to a conventional forum. The wiki portion would hold (and even keep them dynamic in the wiki way) the cookbooks, and the forum holds the in depth specific discussions. That still seems to make sense to me.
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hazmat
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Post by hazmat »

I like the wiki- idea, actually. I don't think having something like this would cause the board to lose its personal side one bit. People are still going to have myriad questions. Face it.. just reading about a process doesn't make you a pro at it from the first try... there's still questions to be asked and answers to be had.

For example, I posted a question about shank extensions yesterday. It's a question that surely has been asked 1000 times on here. I had to wait to nearly the end of the day before I got what I was looking for. I had searched the forum, but nothing stood out right off. Had a tutorial section been available somewhere on the forum, it would have saved considerable time. I'm a fan of "one-stop shopping"..
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Post by KurtHuhn »

I can put up a wiki here somewhere, and I would like nothing more than to re-do the entire website. I absolutely hate CMSs, since they never do exactly what you want them to, you have to depend on crude hacks to get some functionality, plugins or modules get outdated almost as soon as they hit the 'Net, and later versions of the modules depend on later versions of the CMS in order to work - but installing a later CMS version will break the entire site you had to hack together in a disorganized fashion to begin with. That's why there's no chat module here.

Ask me how I feel about this PHP-Nuke abomination....

But, if you guys are willing to indulge me for a couple months, I can try to put something together that makes technical and organizational sense.

Let me know your thoughts, but I ask you to email me at the address in my sig block rather than having a string of replies here.
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JSPipes
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Post by JSPipes »

A Wiki type thing would be fantastic! Then someone could start a topic and others could add info to grow the topic. As it grows, it'll need editing for coherence.

Who knows, maybe it could turn into a pipe making how to book and could be sold electronically to raise some money toward keeping the forum up and running.

Should be a lot of fun anyway.
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Post by alexanderfrese »

The longer I think about it, the more I like my own idea. 8)
If the lot of us works on the topics, the wiki principle includes that editing process.
But I think we should not replace the forum style completely, so there is room for discussion an special questions which could be implemented into new wiki topics after discussing a topic in depth. Too much "I don't get that, can you explain it again, please?" in a wiki topic looks odd, I think. But the wiki articles surely might contain links to live discussion threads on the forum part.
I think selling it will be absurd. It kind of perverts the wiki open source idea on the one hand. On the other side: Who will earn what others might pay for it? How to share the income amongst the community? And most important: Who will buy something that is already there on the web – for free?
Possible issue: To think it big: If we get this to a real working thing – we would rise up competing to editors selling pipe making cook books. Would they like it? What might happen?
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Tyler
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Post by Tyler »

I think a collection of articles of some sort has long been in order. I actually asked about a year ago if folks will be willing to write up various aspects of their pipe making processes in order to offer more information than I could provide with my little tutorials. (Not everyone has my tools or my way of the creating of a pipe, so various methods would suit more people.) No one beat down my door with articles. :)

One thing I would predict is that this collection of articles, whatever format they may be best suited (wiki or otherwise), will not kill the discussion or asking of questions. Quite the opposite I would suspect. The more information offered, the more questions will be spawned.

To illustrate let me share my thinking in creating this forum in the first place. As I started making and selling pipes, I had more and more folks emailing me on how to do this or that. I enjoyed that, but it became tedious answering the same questions over and over. I quickly realized that compiling my answers for "publication" was the most effecient thing to do. Thus the tutorials on my site. I started them by building the parts as I was asked them by emailers. Someone asked a question, and I wrote it up and put it in my tutorial. I quickly realized that that simply spawned exponetially more questions! Now I was seen as some sort of pipe making teacher, but I didn't really have much info available. That led more and more people to write more and more. I thought that answer was a forum. It seemed obvious that a forum specific to pipe making would be fun, useful, and quickly be filled with people (other than me) that could answer the repetitive questions so I created one! :)

So there you have the brief history, rather you wanted it or not, and it is based on that history that I suspect that a wiki-style article system would not diminish the forum. Rather it would likely increase discussion. I believe that the more full-stop-shopping this site provides, the more of a crowd it will attract and more useful it will become. Despite the fact that I believe that this forum is the best resource in the world for new pipe makers -- that aren't neighbors with someone like Barbi or Eltang -- there are newbies out there that don't know about this site. I spoke on the phone just last night with a fellow that didn't know about this forum -- I hope he will now join -- that was calling with pipe making questions because of my tutorials. If this forum adds articles and resource links, more and more people will find the site and join in, and that, I think, is a good thing.

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Post by Tyler »

P.S. Let me also predict that the articles will NOT stop the same questions from being asked over and over. They will just be easier to answer because you can offer a link. As I think about it it is kind of funny, the wiki system would just be a way for the old-timer forum members to have the relief that the forum provided me! (Raise your hand if you wrote me early your pipe making and my answer to your question was a link to this forum!) :lol:

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Post by alexanderfrese »

After all, Tyler, it's back to the old ""Spread the word!". And if we can establish a mightier tool that way…

You stated some good points, but is it a pro or a con?

And one further question from the amateur or hobbyist approach: There is that division into the inner and outer circle within this forum. I fully understand there should be a reserved pro-area.
Sometimes I wish I could take a look behind that green door. Kurt gave me some mod rights for a few hours some time ago (to let me regroup the finisheing threads), and I promise I could keep myself from reding in that area. Maybe it's not that fantastic. I don't know.
But in a wiki thing the pros might even contribute some more to those articles open for everyone then, since they don't have to fear too much to be involved into endless questioning by the poor beginner.
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Post by Tyler »

I was trying to say it was a pro.
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Post by mahaffy »

Gosh I hate it when I waffle! But you might be right, Tyler. I note, now that I've been attending classes quite regularly, that a lot of the posts are conceerned with pipes-in-progress (and the accompanying problems being met on the way) and photos in the gallery. Seems t'me that, while you can't jump for every new piece of technology that comes along, it's a mistake to reject ALL innovations. So yes, Tyler and Alex both; as Pooh says, it would probably be a GOOD thing. . . .
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Post by marks »

Personally, I think this is a great idea, as I have heard comments from others that really don't have the time to keep answering the same questions as new folks sign up to the board.

For what it is worth, I would be willing to write up my process for drilling a block on the drill press for such a project and email it to someone who could put it into the kiwi, wookie, or whatever. :)
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Post by hazmat »

We're gonna get a wookie??!!?? Who's gonna feed the beast?????
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Post by ScoJo »

If we can get one that likes to eat junk stummels with popped shanks, I got it covered.
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Post by KurtHuhn »

I'm not putting ANYTHING into a wookie. He might pop *my* shanks. :D
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Post by mahaffy »

Oh, shucks. Well, that's how the wookie tumbles, I guess.
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