pipemakersforum.com

The original forum for pipe makers on the web
It is currently Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:34 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:58 pm
Posts: 542
Location: Lakeland, Florida
I suspect most pipemakers started out by making the shanks on bent pipes "wrong". I know I did... And I had to learn how to do it right at one point.

Once I learned how to make a bent pipe look good, every pipe that I made "wrong" before that really bugged me, embarrassed me even.

In an unprecedented act of humility, I hereby present two case studies of bent pipes that I made "wrong" in the past, and a virtual make-over of these pipe in the hopes that others will learn from my mistakes!

Here is a pipe I made in 2001. I was so proud of this pipe! The grain was phenomenal!

Image

But as you can see, the shank, while being angled, is not at all bent. It just sort of juts out from the back of the bowl and the lines of the profile have no flow to them.

Image

So what could I have done to make this pipe a graceful, flowing masterpiece ( :lol: ) of a bent pipe? Well, if I had moved the lowest point of the bottom curve to a point just behind the center line of the bowl, dropped the shank down lower, and continued the bottom line in one sweeping motion all the way up to the stem joint, the difference would be quite dramatic!

Here are the profiles: First the original shape. Second, the bottom line and shank curve are fixed. Third, the difference between the two.

Image

You can see in the last image where the apex of the bottom curve has been pushed back behind the center of the bowl. The positioning of the shank is a dramatic difference! If you look at the top two silhouettes, I think most folks will agree on which one looks better than the other.

For the second example, we'll step it up a notch and add in a slightly curved section of bamboo. This is a piece that I made in 2002:

Image

You should really be able to pick out the mistakes in the silhouette.

Image

Not only were the same mistakes made in the shaping of the stummel, but the section of bamboo is upside-down also! Can you see it? If not, that's ok. We're going to break it down.

First we'll divide this pipe into its different components, and simply flip the bamboo over so that it will curve slightly upward instead of slightly downward.

Image

Then we fix the shank and bottom curve on the stummel, put it all back together, and put a little more bend in the stem to compensate for the corrected curve in the shank:

Image

Looks much better now, right?

So lets look at the original profile, the corrected profile, and the difference between the two:

Image

You can see in the comparison that the apex of the bottom curve has been pushed back behind the center point of the bowl, and that line is continued in a gentle sweeping curve to the point where the bamboo begins. The section of bamboo has been flipped over so that the gentle curve continues to the stem joint, and the angle of bend on the stem has been adjusted for the new angle.

So there we have it. Two pipes that I shaped "wrong" early on in my pipemaking career, and a virtual correction of each of these shapes.

Image

Image

I hope the differences in aesthetics here have been made clear, and I hope this helps!

_________________
Cheers!
-Walt

http://waltcannoy.com
http://www.facebook.com/WaltCannoyPipes
http://www.youtube.com/user/wcannoy
http://instagram.com/waltcannoy
http://twitter.com/WCannoy

"I have no idea what's going on here. " - Ernie Markle


Last edited by WCannoy on Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:55 pm
Posts: 312
I'm not seeing any images?

_________________
Ryan Richardson
R2 Pipes/Ryan's Luxury Goods
______________________________________
"You can't convince a stupid person that what he's doing is stupid, because the stupidness inside him is telling him that it's smart"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:58 pm
Posts: 542
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Ratimus wrote:
I'm not seeing any images?


Ok, I've changed the image hosting. Can you see them now?

_________________
Cheers!
-Walt

http://waltcannoy.com
http://www.facebook.com/WaltCannoyPipes
http://www.youtube.com/user/wcannoy
http://instagram.com/waltcannoy
http://twitter.com/WCannoy

"I have no idea what's going on here. " - Ernie Markle


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:55 pm
Posts: 312
Yes sir. Thanks for taking the time to post this.

_________________
Ryan Richardson
R2 Pipes/Ryan's Luxury Goods
______________________________________
"You can't convince a stupid person that what he's doing is stupid, because the stupidness inside him is telling him that it's smart"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 24
Awesome Walt, thanks for taking the time to highlight this. Your pictures are worth a million words!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:27 am
Posts: 57
Location: NY
Awesome post, very helpful. You're a nice guy, Mr. Cannoy. :wink:
Arrgh, slow typing= redundant. :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:39 pm
Posts: 1675
Location: Dallas Texas
Nice post Mr Cannoy !

_________________
Ryan Alden
http://www.aldenpipes.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:03 pm
Posts: 1124
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA
I do not quite agree that you shaped the pipes wrong. I see two different shapes. Acornish and dublinish.

_________________
Premal Chheda
http://www.chhedapipes.com
http://www.smokershaven.com

Before the battle begins in a game of chess.
"I am going to defeat you with my left hand!" - Arvind Shamji Chheda


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:46 am
Posts: 4668
The point though, is that bent pipes aren't just a bowl with a straight shank stuck off at whatever angle. There's a curve to consider, and the derivative is zero well behind the bowl's vertical axis of symmetry.

Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it.

_________________
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:03 pm
Posts: 1124
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA
Sasquatch wrote:
The point though, is that bent pipes aren't just a bowl with a straight shank stuck off at whatever angle. There's a curve to consider, and the derivative is zero well behind the bowl's vertical axis of symmetry.

Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it.


I did not pay attention in English class and may be mis-interpreting what you are saying, but there really does not have to be a curve in a bent in order for it to look good, and there does not have to be a curve for it to be a bent.

_________________
Premal Chheda
http://www.chhedapipes.com
http://www.smokershaven.com

Before the battle begins in a game of chess.
"I am going to defeat you with my left hand!" - Arvind Shamji Chheda


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:46 am
Posts: 4668
It was math class you missed.

Agree, the shank doesn't have to be curved (take any number of Dunhill shapes). But the curve on the bottom of the pipe does not reach it's lowest spot under the middle of the bowl. Ever.

Can you spot the Newbie pipe? Course you can. Because the bottom line of the pipe is wrong.

Image

_________________
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:46 am
Posts: 4668
Obviously something acorn-y is not going to follow that so much.

_________________
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:03 pm
Posts: 1124
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA
It is not necessarily wrong. It is not ideal, but it actually does not look bad, and sometimes it works. A Dublin style bowl like the top left can look good with the straight shank.

_________________
Premal Chheda
http://www.chhedapipes.com
http://www.smokershaven.com

Before the battle begins in a game of chess.
"I am going to defeat you with my left hand!" - Arvind Shamji Chheda


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:09 pm
Posts: 216
Location: Lake Zurich, Illinois
I once made a pipe like that and the Guy that critiqued it tore it apart, Norm.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:49 pm
Posts: 1843
Location: Zimmerman, MN
PremalChheda wrote:
It is not necessarily wrong. It is not ideal, but it actually does not look bad, and sometimes it works. A Dublin style bowl like the top left can look good with the straight shank.


Is this the exception that proves the rule? Or can you further explain when it can look good?

_________________
---
Fail early, fail often. Your success depends on it.

Jeremiah Sandahl
http://sandahlpipe.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:46 am
Posts: 4668
This is not about straight or curved shanks. Some of the pipes in my picture have straight shanks - the kaywoodie at bottom left, the greek thing top right.

It's about shank placement on a bent and the geometry that follows.

Bent pipes where the bottom curve of the pipe occurs right at the vertical axis of bowl symmetry look amateur. You cannot find me a Dunhill, Charatan, or Peterson where this occurs.

Never the one on the left, always the one on the right.

Image

_________________
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:46 am
Posts: 4668
sandahlpipe wrote:
PremalChheda wrote:
It is not necessarily wrong. It is not ideal, but it actually does not look bad, and sometimes it works. A Dublin style bowl like the top left can look good with the straight shank.


Is this the exception that proves the rule? Or can you further explain when it can look good?



No Premal's just wrong here. :lol:

_________________
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:27 am
Posts: 57
Location: NY
I don't want to stir the pot, but for the purpose of studying and understanding shapes, what about skaters? I have two that definately have bowls that are lower after the bend, one which has a reverse bend similar to the first iteration of the bamboo shank Mr. Cannoy posted. They're not amateur, but they might be wrong...just c :?: urious?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:46 am
Posts: 4668
There are obvious exceptions - skaters, a shape like a 55, hawkbills, acorns, elephant feet etc.

This is one of those things where maybe all a guy can say is "if it's part of the design, by necessity or feature, then great, if it's NOT, then it shouldn't be there".

Make nice pipes, use nice curves, don't leave lumps. :thumbsup:

_________________
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:03 pm
Posts: 1124
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA
Sasquatch wrote:
This is not about straight or curved shanks. Some of the pipes in my picture have straight shanks - the kaywoodie at bottom left, the greek thing top right.

It's about shank placement on a bent and the geometry that follows.

Bent pipes where the bottom curve of the pipe occurs right at the vertical axis of bowl symmetry look amateur. You cannot find me a Dunhill, Charatan, or Peterson where this occurs.

Never the one on the left, always the one on the right.

Image


Per your drawing, the one on the left looks better than the right.

_________________
Premal Chheda
http://www.chhedapipes.com
http://www.smokershaven.com

Before the battle begins in a game of chess.
"I am going to defeat you with my left hand!" - Arvind Shamji Chheda


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group