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 Post subject: Very Beginner Questions
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:12 pm 
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go easy on me here. as I have stated before, I'm not looking to become some kind of pipe master. I am just looking for some helpful advice from "the big boys" to make a few decent pipes for myself. I'm going to order a few kits from VF when I figure out what I want to cut. I would, however, like to drill my own blocks at some point. I do not have a lathe. we have one at work, but it's not something I want to use. maybe some day if I get more involved. we have a number of drill presses that I am more comfortable using.

1) when you guys drill a block, do you drill the mortise & airway first or after the chamber? and the "why?"

2)for those that do hand cut, do you cut the bowl shape first or the shank?

3)staining: I have heard and read a little about using a darker stain at first to identify scratches and to make the grain more pronounced. is there any reason not to do like this? are there stains to stay away from?

4)buffing the finished pipe: what's the difference between Tripoli and White Diamond? do these stand up better on the finish than carnauba wax?

in welding, any idiot can make a weld. but it takes attention to detail and practice to make a solid weld and make it look good. I'm looking at pipe making the same way. my first welds were laughable, but with practice and advice from those more skilled than me I had learned to make solid and smooth looking welds. hopefully with your time, patience, and advice I can make a pipe I can be somewhat proud of and happy to show off. thank you in advance for any advice, your time, and patience!

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:12 pm 
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search.php

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:13 pm 
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These questions have all been asked and answered repeatedly on the forum. It matters little whether you drill and/or shape the shank or bowl first. The best thing to do is to not overthink it. Dig in and start working on one and then you'll see the making of a pipe is easier than you might think. Mastering will take some time, but you won't be mastering pipe making on your first try.

Tripoli goes on first then white diamond. Then carnauba. It's best to have three different wheels. One for each kind. You can use any stain. Fiebings is the simplest option.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:19 pm 
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thanks for the reply. I'll refrain from asking any more questions.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:17 pm 
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Billy Klubb wrote:
thanks for the reply. I'll refrain from asking any more questions.

By all means, ask questions. That is how you learn. The trick is to ask the right questions at the right time. You know how some sites have a FAQ page because the same questions keep getting asked by everyone who comes along and it would be extremely inefficient to answer the same question every single time? That's what this entire forum is. It is 10+ yrs worth of FAQ that are extremely detailed and super helpful. Everyone here is willing to help anyone who comes along, but it works much better if the search function in the top right of the screen is an integral part of that process.
For what it's worth, I drill the airway first for no other reason than that's the way I started doing it and stuck with it. Others do it differently.
I cut the shank first because it is usually chucked up on the same axis as the airway and mortise, but not always. Others do it differently.
For the longest time I used a dark stain to help me sand better. I'm getting away from this and just using water because others have convinced me that it is better, and I agree based on trying it out and seeing the results. Alcohol based stains are most popular.
Buffing has been covered by Sandahl and I concur with him because he is right.

Please don't get the idea that people here don't want to help you. If you stick around and trust the process a bit you will see otherwise. This is the best place on the web to learn pipe making hands down.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:38 pm 
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some other boards I have been on had great FAQs as well. things change and evolve as well as the way people view certain processes. one of these boards, first response to any beginner was a link to the search function. that's all fine and dandy, but there were usually follow up questions regarding specific processes. some of which were not outlined or have become a topic of debate. that forum is all but dead now. another forum gets plenty of traffic with a lot of the same questions asked. people seem to be a bit more helpful and answer the same questions without hesitation and offer advice without talking down. I'll lurk around and keep reading topics I feel might help, but I sure as hell won't ask anymore questions. posting links to FAQ and telling to ask the right questions at the right time (what are the right questions and what is the right time?) is far less than helpful and makes any response following seem less than friendly nor helpful. thank you for what little responses and time you have given. good luck with all your pipes!

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:44 pm 
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Which of your questions did I refuse to answer? If you feel that information is missing in my response, please be specific.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:07 pm 
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mightysmurf8201 wrote:
Which of your questions did I refuse to answer? If you feel that information is missing in my response, please be specific.


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there is a misunderstanding. nowhere did I state that you refused to answer any of my questions, nor did I state there was missing information in your response. you and sandahlpipe both answered my questions, and I thank you both for that. what I am saying is that I won't be asking any more questions. if it's enough trouble to (obviously) annoy people with some simple questions, then I don't want to be a bother. and it's obviously too much of an annoyance based on the responses. as I said, I'll still lurk and look for advice, but I sure won't be asking any more questions. thank you again for your time. es ist vorbei.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:26 pm 
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Latakialover (George) tends to rub the new guys all the wrong way. Don't let that stop you from finding what you're looking for. Having been where you're at only a few years ago, I know how sometimes a direct answer can save a ton of time figuring out even the right thing to look for. My goal became to read everything on the forum. So I went through every thread and read it all. (By the way, the Stinky Ebonite thread is the best.) Now I try to answer most questions even the ones that are often repeated because I want to be as helpful as I can. You shouldn't feel bad for asking a question. As a matter of courtesy, giving a forum search a try before asking is reasonable.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:26 pm 
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Billy Klubb wrote:
some other boards I have been on had great FAQs as well. things change and evolve as well as the way people view certain processes. one of these boards, first response to any beginner was a link to the search function. that's all fine and dandy, but there were usually follow up questions regarding specific processes. some of which were not outlined or have become a topic of debate. that forum is all but dead now. another forum gets plenty of traffic with a lot of the same questions asked. people seem to be a bit more helpful and answer the same questions without hesitation and offer advice without talking down. I'll lurk around and keep reading topics I feel might help, but I sure as hell won't ask anymore questions. posting links to FAQ and telling to ask the right questions at the right time (what are the right questions and what is the right time?) is far less than helpful and makes any response following seem less than friendly nor helpful. thank you for what little responses and time you have given. good luck with all your pipes!


This place is well and truly filled to the brim with insensitive, selfish people who "hesitate" (?) and "talk down." Damn straight. I'm SO relieved that you came along to tell them off. Anyone not willing to take an hour to type out answers to questions that have been asked and answered countless times on this board as well as the Net at large---and then be committed to answering whatever further questions that providing that information triggers---is indeed a complete dick. As shameful as it is, I don't think it's worth even TRYING to ask if anyone would be willing to bring a truck filled with tools and briar to your house and give you hands-on lessons, either. ESPECIALLY given how much things "change" and "evolve" when it comes to pipemaking. (??)

You go grrrl. :twisted:

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"Not once has a customer looked at one of my pipes and said, 'I like this pipe, but wish you had made the stem an hour faster'... I want every stem to be perfect" --- Adam Davidson


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:34 pm 
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For someone who doesn't have time or energy to answer questions, George, you've got plenty of energy to criticize the whippersnappers for asking questions. If time and energy is an issue, why not just scroll on past?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:35 pm 
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sandahlpipe wrote:
Latakialover (George) tends to rub the new guys all the wrong way.



Latakialover (George) tends to rub the new guys who ask others to do their shovel work before lifting a finger for themselves, and then act all entitled and pissy when called on it all the wrong way.

FTFY

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:40 pm 
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sandahlpipe wrote:
For someone who doesn't have time or energy to answer questions, George, you've got plenty of energy to criticize the whippersnappers for asking questions. If time and energy is an issue, why not just scroll on past?


Because it's rude, that's why. Demand the unnecessary time and effort of others, and then complain about it when they don't jump? I don't know what planet you live on, Jeremiah, but that's simply unacceptable. No exceptions.

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"Not once has a customer looked at one of my pipes and said, 'I like this pipe, but wish you had made the stem an hour faster'... I want every stem to be perfect" --- Adam Davidson


Last edited by LatakiaLover on Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:47 pm 
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To dis some of the board members is silly, Billy.
Pay attention to what Jeremiah said. READ. Additionally, Jeremiah will give you some of the best answers around.
Many on the board are full time pipe makers and give their time freely. All have worked diligently to learn the process of pipe making and to have a novice ask redundant questions becomes loathsome. Practice and research.
Continue with your tone and we'll give you the stinky Ebonite treatment.

I AGREE WITH GEORGE..............totally, dude!

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:52 pm 
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LatakiaLover wrote:
sandahlpipe wrote:
For someone who doesn't have time or energy to answer questions, George, you've got plenty of energy to criticize the whippersnappers for asking questions. If time and energy is an issue, why not just scroll on past?


Because it's rude, that's why. Demand the time and effort of strangers, then complain about it when they don't jump? I don't know what planet you live on, Jeremiah, but that's simply unacceptable. No exceptions.

at no point did I demand. I asked. that is all. I didn't think I was coming off as rude asking for some simple answers and possibly advice. is that not what forums like these are for? I feel no way entitled. nor do I feel like I am acting pissy. just let down and a bit jaded by yet another example of human arrogance. I most certainly didn't want you to waste your time. I am grateful for any help anyone is willing to offer. I'm not asking for anyone to come and show me how to do anything. if you're not willing to help, that's fine. I don't feel anyone is required to do so. I've already wasted enough of your time as I have wasted enough of mine. I have two boys that need to get to bed.

thank you all again and I'll be admiring your work. es ist vorbei.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:01 pm 
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LatakiaLover wrote:
sandahlpipe wrote:
Latakialover (George) tends to rub the new guys all the wrong way.



Latakialover (George) tends to rub the new guys who ask others to do their shovel work before lifting a finger for themselves, and then act all entitled and pissy when called on it all the wrong way.

FTFY


But you don't chew another guy out when he asks where the shovel is. My comment for everyone on tone in forums is to ignore it. Reading between the lines is the surest way to get pissed off.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:30 pm 
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George and Jeremiah, I think the Two of You are among the most helpful on the Forum and it scares Me when this stuff happens. It is Valentines Day and You Two should kiss and make up before this gets out of hand, Norm.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:35 pm 
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The main issue here, Billy, is that people come here on a quest to learn how to make pipes. The people here offer to "teach a man to fish" and the man gets pouty, essentially saying "screw all that, just give me the fish". In your particular case, we did both. I answered your questions, which you acknowledged that I and Sandahl both did, AND we pointed you in the direction to find more information yourself. What more do you want? Just to be clear, this is not a rhetorical question. I genuinely don't know what more you want. You got the answers you needed, not necessarily the ones you wanted. Happy Valentine's Day.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:46 pm 
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Norm, you're great. Thanks for the reminder. For the record, you won't see me kissing old curmudgeons here or anywhere else. But I do respect George's work and ethic and have no personal vendetta. I don't let words on a forum get under my skin and George and I do get along now despite the occasional difference of opinion. I actually rather enjoy controversy a bit more than I probably should...it's cheap entertainment.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:42 pm 
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sandahlpipe wrote:
...you won't see me kissing old curmudgeons...


Are yew tryin' a say I ain't purty enough?


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