Shaping THEN Drilling

For discussion of the drilling and shaping of the stummel.
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Tyler
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Shaping THEN Drilling

Post by Tyler »

In the pattern of the Danes, I am trying something new. I am shaping a stumel BEFORE I drill it. The benefits of doing this are nice. You can take the shape out of the block at an odd angle in order to take advantage of the best grain, and if a pit arises, you can adjust the shape with much more freedom since you are not bound by the holes.

REPORT 1: Shaping

I have my first effort rough shaped. It was very surprised that I was feeling a bit lost without the holes. I shape with a finger in the tobacco chamber most of the time, and what I thought would bother me was holding onto the block without that hole. That did not bother me. What was more challenging was proportion and symmetry without the chamber as a guide. There was a big bald spot in the block I was using -- that is why I wanted to try this method -- and nice grain beside it. Carving past the bald spot was an uneasy feeling because of all the wood I was using, and when done, the general shape was very lopsided. A few judiscious moves to the other side though, and poof, I'm back in business.

Another difference with this method was that I paid MUCH more attention to the grain of the pipe. When I already have the holes drilled, I don't pay much attention to the grain. I pay attention to the grain BEFORE I drill it, and try to pick the best block, and orient the block in such a way as to drill in the best spot. After I've drilled it, I just shape it. Not so without the block already drilled. I was constantly checking the grain in order to get the shape out of the best spot in the block. Since there were no holes to force the shape, the shape was dictated to me by the grain in a way I've never experienced. I still made the shape I intended, but it curves a bit differently then I envisioned because that took the most advantage of the grain.

I have not drilled the pipe yet, and that, of course, is the challenging part with this method, Stay tuned for more...

Tyler
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whitebar
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Post by whitebar »

I have seen video of folks carving this way. When they do the drilling, they just hold the block in their hands and it seems to drill effortlessly. My guess is that they must use really sharp drill bits. If I tried this myself, I'd probably rip a hand off or impale my skull with the stummel. 8O 8O :cry: 8O 8O

I'm looking forward to your next report but please be careful!
Stephen

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Nick
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Post by Nick »

Thats the technique I've used, and so far so good I guess. It was kind of after the fact that I heard you're supposed to drill first.
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whitebar
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Post by whitebar »

Nick,

How do you get the holes to line up? With my lathe I can take the time to carefully check allignment before drilling and the block will stay in position. It seems that hand holding it would possibly lead to more drilling errors. Have you found any tricks?
Stephen

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Nick
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Post by Nick »

Well, I don't hold the stummel. Rather I do the work non a drill press. First I get the draught hole set up. Drill that, and then drill the chamber on the press, checking frequently to see when I hit it.
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KurtHuhn
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Post by KurtHuhn »

I once saw a photo of a rig that let you drill the draught hole last. It was a drill press, but it instead of a vise or table it had a metal rod that you rested the inside wall of the tobacco chamber on. The rod was designed to rest on the bottom of the tobacco chamber, so all you had to do was line up the tip of this rod with the tip of the drill bit, and you're off to the races - perfect alignment every time.

For hand drilling the tobacco hole, since you can't exactly chuck it into a vise after it's been shaped, I imagine a *sharp* silver and demming bit would work, but I would want that bit pointed straight out - not up and down or side to side. Pointed right *at* me so that I could secure the stummel with both hands and use my body mass to keep it steady.

Let us know how it goes, Tyler. I am *most* interested in your results.
Kurt Huhn
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Nick
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Post by Nick »

How cool Kurt!! What a neat idea for doing the draught hole.
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Jeffery_Suter
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Post by Jeffery_Suter »

Denny Souer uses a jig like you describer Kurt, only he holds it up to a chucked drill bit...

Check it out...
http://www.lioncrest.com/denny.souers/shop/drill.html
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ArtGuy
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Post by ArtGuy »

Marco Biagnini drills his by hand with the bit facing him

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jbacon
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Post by jbacon »

tyler

when you figure out how to drill your holeless pipe--please-please-please video

and start a new section in the pipe-making called advanced pipe making or pipe-making- 5150
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jeff
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Post by jeff »

Tyler,

That sounds like an interesting experiment. I'm particularly interested in hearing and/or seeing how the holes line up. That is obviously the biggest obstacle for most of us here--that and having your hand torn off while drilling. But, there's only one way to find out, right.

Drill away

Jeff
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Tyler
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Post by Tyler »

Report 2:

I drilled the tobacco chamber after marking the lines on the stummel where I wanted them. The chamber was not difficult. I used the 3/4" bits that were ground by Ken Lamb. I just drew a line on the block, chucked the bit in the headstock of by lathe, and puched the stummel onto the drill by hand. Vwa la! Tobacco chamber.

Next I drilled the draught hole. This went quite well as well, until I realized that I had probably drilled further than I needed to. Uh oh. If that's the case, that means I missed the chamber, because I was looking in the chamber as I drilled and there was no draught hole drill! I checked it out, and sure enough, I was drilling under the chamber.

Back to the chamber bit. After drilling down about 1/8" the bit grabbed the stummel in my hand. I had hit the draught hole, and sharp bit grabbed the wood and wrenched the pipe out of my hand. I fought the drilling until I was to the proper depth.

CRUD!

I had drilled the draught hole too far! :oops: (I should have marked the bit.) So now I have a tobacco chamber with a hole on each side. (Fortunately, only one of those holes exited the pipe! :o )

It wasn't so bad that it won't be smokeable, but it is most definitely a reject. The draught hole cuts into the bowl opposite its entrance about 1/16". Because of that, I tried to manipulate the bit around and carve as much of that draught-hole over-drill out as I could. The net result of that was an over-drilled tobacco chamber that has now has the draught hole entering at a slight angle. Before all my manipulating, the draught hole was dead center.

Pipe for me! :oops:

Now I'll just need to make it smokeable. I'll use this pipe as an experiment with various finishes and such to see how they smoke.

CONCLUSION:

I like this method. I think with another try or two, I'll get the drilling down. I love how much freedom there is in a block. I tried this experiment because of the nature of this block. It was going to need rusticating if I drilled it normally. By doing it this way, I was able to move the pipe off-center in the block for the shape.

I'll say this, if I have shaped a perfectly grained masterpiece, I'd be scared to death when it came time for drilling!! I'm sure, like most thing, this style of drilling is just a matter of getting used to it.

I'll keep working at this. I'll stick to my normal method if the block allows, and set aside blocks that have the potential for this method. I bet I'll be using this method more and more, and by a year from now, I think this could be relatively common for me.

We'll see!

Tyler

P.S. Once I get this process down, I'll video it.
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Nick
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Post by Nick »

Too neat Tyler!
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jbacon
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Post by jbacon »

tyler
i could not wait, i had to give this hand drilling thing a try. i have been working on just shaping- no holes(not with briar- but with other hardwoods(popular-cherrywood etc) so i had some models without holes- down to the play room i go. everyone should give this a try- not w/ good briar but with some hard wood you don t mind destroying. i used the tool rest to steady and support the wood. my first tobacco chamber i didn t drill deep enough so instead of shutting off the lathe i tried to keep on drilling- not a very good idea- shut the lathe off first- shove the wood back on to the bit and the start over so to make a long story longer- practice w/ wood you don t mind messing up.

note on the tobacco chamber bit
i use a ken lamb bit i too was shocked on the price-but now i will use not other bit.

one thing i did do different at first was to drill the draught hole first

and then i started mixing things up

combinations

tobacco chamber and mortise first
just mix it up and have fun.

i know how you feel now freedom
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ArtGuy
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Post by ArtGuy »

When you guys get really good you can try boring the chamber with a gouge like this guy.

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TreverT
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Post by TreverT »

I've bene curious about thsi method for a long time but have never tried it, at least not in the way you describe (hand-holding). I don't understand how you drill the bowl, though - I've tried this with spade bits and there's simply no way I can hold the thing steady - it takes flight at the first snag. Is there some major difference in the style of the drill bit that you are using for the chamber?

Also, how in the world do you manage the alignment of the airhole in 3D? I mean, I can see drawing a line on the top of the shank and drilling inline with that mark, but you can't tell where you're drilling on the sideways line... you can be inline but going too high or too low and once you've gotten off-line, it's hell to fix if even possible. Can you give more specifics on how you're managing the airhole drilling this way?

Come to think of it, how do you flatten the shank end to a perfect angle to the mortise, too... I generally have to shave this down with a razor cutting bit while the shank is rotating on a steel tenon rod to ensure a perfect 90 degrees. It's hard to imagine how one could do this by hand?

I look forward to hearing more about your experiences with this. It's one of the things I want to talk to the Danes about at Cuxhaven.
Happy Smoking,
Trever Talbert
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KurtHuhn
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Post by KurtHuhn »

random wrote:
TreverT wrote:I've tried this with spade bits and there's simply no way I can hold the thing steady - it takes flight at the first snag.
I had the same experience, and assumed it was just me. Maybe there's a special Gorilla Grip technique we need to learn.
I think the answer is the use of a ground down silver and demming bit. They look like this:
http://www.toolsforalloccasions.com/sho ... sp?ID=1175

One of these would be far less likely to snag on something than a spade bit. I'd love to have a set, and as soon as I can afford it, I'll be contacting Ken Lamb.

TreverT wrote:Also, how in the world do you manage the alignment of the airhole in 3D?
Some people have a "feel" for this. Way back when, when I was taking architecture courses, I was a sort of sideshow freak in that I could take any arbitrary line and point at the exact center - without the use of measuring tools. I can also come *very* close to the geometric center of just about any odd-shaped object. I have no idea how I do it.

I think, though, if you drill the mortis and face off the shank in one step, then drill the airhole in the next step - before drilling the tobacco chamber - everything should just sort of work itself out. I'll bet it takes loads of practice though.
Kurt Huhn
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Post by geigerpipes »

Have also been very curious to this method and the advantages it weilds,
was originally planning to rebuild my lathe to do this kinda drilling,but went for the allignment chuck from Ken Lamb instead...however I have seen how Bengt Carlson drills his pipes after shaping them, he first marks the pipe with exact lines of where the Tb chamber is supposed to be on the front and sides of the pipe and in the bottm where these lines meet i adds a big sqirt of 2 component epoxy, that after drying he uses to hold the stummel in the lathe 3 jaw chuck for tb chamber drilling.
he then has a little gimick on the feed of the lathe where he can fasten the tb drill bit he used,angle it as he wants, pop in the draghthole bit in the lathe chuck, and chek so the bits meet perfect.Then its just to drill ..
i think this is the way Bo nordh drills also...
later I will have the lathe rebuilt in this fasion to have the posibility of making pipes in this way...
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