Shaping with a File or Rasp

[ArtGuy]

I have been using a lot more file and rasp work on my latest pipes. I find that by doing that by hand I can get a better feel for the form and more control. It takes a little longer but I make fewer mistakes that I later have to correct.

How much file work do you guys use compared to the disk sander? On my latest it has been about 1/3 disk sander, 1/3 files and rasp, 1/3 hand sanding with sandpaper.

[marks]

I never thought of how much time I spend with each, but if I were to guess, I would say, 30% power sander, 30% files, and 40% hand sanding. This ratio changes somewhat with the shape of the pipe I am making. If I am doing a panel, or something with flat portions, I do these almost exclusively on the power sander. As I get more comfortable in my ability to not make a mistake, I am spending more time on the power sander with shapes other than panels. I just bought some finer grade paper so I can do more work on the power sander. I am more comfortable doing freehand shaping on the belt than on the disc, though.

[Tyler]

Hey Guys,

I've been out of town since Monday. It is good to get back and find some activity in here.

ArtGuy, what a good question. I would say that I use the sanding disk for about 95% of my shaping, and needle files and sand paper for about 5%. Over time I have found that the percentage of shaping I do on the disc has increased.

Tyler

[Pipergal]

Yes I agree with Tyler .....we do more on the disk than with the rasps and files. Over time we have become acustom to using the disk and getting a better feel for the amount to take off.

Dont get me wrong we started with rasps and files, but over time ( a few years) we just have become more a custom to the disk for majority of our work.

Terri

[ArtGuy]

How interesting, I have kind of gone backwards. I had never used any files really until recently. I used to do 75% of it on the disk but now I generally don't go beyond 80 grit sandpaper on the sanding disk and then to go files and then hand sanding.

It's interesting how people work differently at the same task.

[Perry]

New guy here.

Are you refering to the sanding disk with the paper that folds over the edge and a backing plate? Where is the best place to get this or can I make one?

Perry

[ArtGuy]

I use one made by 3M that has a foam pad and attaches with velcro. I too would love to know where those pipe maker guys get the convex ones that attach on the back .

[Tyler]

I just use the foam-padded ones from Home Depot. I use the ones that use adhesive-backed discs, not the velcro ones like ArtGuy, but I bet the velcro ones are better. I have to add additional adhesive to mine to get them to stick well.

As for the convex discs that are specifically for pipe making, Tim West sells them at www.jhlowe.com . They are very expensive.

Going back a bit to the original conversation of how much work I do on disc, let me add that I use three different grits, and several different RPM. I use my lathe, and start with 80 grit discs at 3600 RPM. I progress through grits and speeds until I end with 400 grit at 500 RPM. If I was simply using the same coarse disc on a 1725 RPM motor, I'm sure my ratio of disc to file usage would be very different.

Tyler

[ArtGuy]

I wondered if those at West's site were that type of disk. You are right, they are very expensive.

I think I will try your method Tyler with the various rpm. I bet it would be faster if nothing else. I also use my disk sander on my lathe. I find it to be better to stand to the side of the disk rather than in front of it.

[TreverT]

I use one made by 3M that has a foam pad and attaches with velcro. I too would love to know where those pipe maker guys get the convex ones that attach on the back .

You have to move to France Our workshop is full of them, and interestingly enough, most of them are nearly 80 years old or more - they are all wood-bodied and many are hand-turned and signed by the turners. These are all from St. Claude, though JHLowe does sell them today. I have no clue if there are other sources or not. FWIW, they are EXCELLENT to work with. It took a while, but gradually I have moved nealry all of my basic shaping to the wheels, and even use them to save me a great deal of time-wastage in finishing. You do have to have a variety to get the best from them, though - we use about 8-9 in regular rotation, with shapes from the center cut-out designs (for shaping shanks without sanding off the sides of your bit) to various degrees of roundness and grit to a large thin one which can get into small crevices. I even have one which I dearly love that is about 2000 grit and can do an excellent job of quick localized scratch removal.

[Tyler]

Trever,

Until you mentioned it, I hadn't thought of all the useful shapes one might have for various aspects of the process. With the thought of possibly making some of my own wheels, how does the paper attach and what kind do you use?

Thanks.

Tyler

[TreverT]

Trever,

Until you mentioned it, I hadn't thought of all the useful shapes one might have for various aspects of the process. With the thought of possibly making some of my own wheels, how does the paper attach and what kind do you use?

Thanks.

Tyler

I don't know if I can expain this without pictures. The tools are designed so that they can be screwed onto the threaded shaft of a motor or lathe headstock. At the end of each is a padded foam or rubber convex backing pad which determines the shape of the sanding surface. On the shaft, behind the face pad, is a set of threads. There is a backplate with each tool which screws onto the threads and can thus be tightened to the back of the facepad. You simply cut a big disc of sandpaper (preferably the cloth, flexible kind) and then crinkle the edges all the way around, folding them over until you can stretch the sandpaper across the facepad, wrap the edges around, and tighten the backing plate onto the edges to hold them in place. It works much better than the common flat disc sanders because you have an actual sanding edge instead of the usual case of wearing the sandpaper away from the disc edges and exposing the rubber backing. They're handy things!

[Tyler]

Trever,

I think I understand from your description. I have seen some similar, so I think that helps. There is a local fellow I met with a few times for pipemaking tips who had been making pipes for 40 years when I met him. Unfortunately he was a grumpy old codger and very unapproachable. He finally warmed up to me a bit after he saw some of my work and saw that I was serious, but unfortunately his health failed him before we could develop much of a relationship. That was a lot of information to say, he had discs that sound much like you described.

One question I have about such discs relates to something you mentioned, and that is using the edges of the disc. With the typical foam discs, the edge of the paper quickly wears away and leave black "skids marks" on the briar, necessitating a paper change long before the rest of the disc is worn out. It is an attractive notion to have the paper folded over that edge so that the "skids" are avoided. I've always wondered though if the puckered bumps from folding the paper over a round edege affected the usefulness of that area. Also, does that part of the paper wear out excessively quickly?

Thanks!

Tyler

[TreverT]

No, it doesn't weat out very badly - mostly it just gets smoother and better able to provide a glossy surface. I have one disc with a thin round edge which gives the equivalent of a 6000 grit polish, and the thin edge is easy to work into narrow areas. You do get a bumpy edge and it's not as easy as a flat disc to place exactly, but with use the bumps wear flat and with practice you can do some very good work quickly.

[Tyler]

Well, sounds like I need to add another item (or set of items) to my wish list!

Thanks Trever.

Tyler

[ArtGuy]

Since they are turned out of wood, is there a foam or cloth padding that is placed under the paper?

And is the paper then just tacked or stapled to the back directly into the wood?

[Tyler]

ArtGuy,

Trever can answer about his, but the discs I have seen do not have padding as I recall.

As for shaping the chamber with a chisel on the lathe, I have seen fellows doing what appears to be just that in photos. Since I have only seen stills, I am not positive, but often the caption implies that they did the whole chamber that way -- no drilling at all.

Tyler

[TreverT]

Since they are turned out of wood, is there a foam or cloth padding that is placed under the paper?

And is the paper then just tacked or stapled to the back directly into the wood?

There is padding under all the discs. It's some sort of very hard foam stuff, with some give and yet tough enough to actually turn to custom shapes if needed. I have no clue what it is - given the age of my tools, it's probably extract of endangered Amazon blue whale warbler or something...
The paper isn't tacked or stapled, just folded over the edge and the backing plate is screwed up tight onto the folds, which holds it in place better than any adhesive discs I've worked with.

[TreverT]

ArtGuy,

As for shaping the chamber with a chisel on the lathe, I have seen fellows doing what appears to be just that in photos. Since I have only seen stills, I am not positive, but often the caption implies that they did the whole chamber that way -- no drilling at all.

Tyler

I've done a few bowls this way, when I had to make a very unusual or specialized chamber design for some reason (in one case it was for a giant conical bowl with a top diameter much bigger than any of my existing bits). It is risky! :O I haven't had much practice at inside-turning though it is an art unto itself, and for someone without a lot of previous experience there is great opportunity for catches and scraper-brain-impalements...