What is your failing rate.

For discussion of the drilling and shaping of the stummel.
pzhan
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What is your failing rate.

Post by pzhan »

Last night, I screw up a very nice block of briar when I hand drill the airway.
That makes me a bit upset. :shock:

I am still a beginner of pipe making, in theory this is suppose to happen.
But still..... :cry:

So my question is what is your failing rate caused by human error?

Cheers and have a nice day. :mrgreen:
Peter
wdteipen
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Re: What is your failing rate.

Post by wdteipen »

Good question. Early on it was pretty high. It's been a good while since I've messed one up that I couldn't recover from. Don't get me wrong. I still make mistakes but these days I chalk it up to the briar deciding it didn't like my original plan. :lol:
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Massis
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Re: What is your failing rate.

Post by Massis »

As a complete rookie, my failing rate so far is shooting through the roof.

1 pipe finished (but failed technically too :-p )
3 pipes in progress
1 failure because of briar
5 failures due to human error

so thats 50%...

Strangely enough, my drilling was spot on in the first 4 blocks I did, and has been getting worse, while I've been getting more careful and started drawing everything on the block.
Guess I need to go back to drilling by eye because I suck at drawing...

the failures so far were:
- sanded into the stummel once on a dublin
- sanded into the shank once (also a dublin)
- wanted to redrill the airway to enlarge it but misaligned and drilled a second airway into the shank :-D
- missed my drilling but kept my mortise as center of the shank, thus having a shank that was completely misaligned to the bowl...
- missed my drilling again and am trying to salvage the block

My main problems are not being able to square the block and wanting to remove too much briar.

I have a bandsaw, but can't seem to cut straight, also cutting is quite difficult (a 2" long cut takes about 30 seconds to complete...) so I can't really use it for squaring, and I don't have disc sander.

I only have normal belt sander (the handheld kind) which I can clamp to my workbench and use freehand to square blocks on...

Thank god I decided to start on 5$ blocks from Jaume Hom and not $50 blocks from Mimmo...
Archer
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Re: What is your failing rate.

Post by Archer »

Well in three blocks of "actual pipe wood" briar Ive gotten 1.5 pipes...lol. My first briar pipe was turning out technically excellent until I caught the spinning shank on my lathe with my gouge. The bowl stayed put, but the shank went sailing through the air! :banghead: so now I have a shankless bowl that I may cobble some different shank material or bamboo to someday. Im still mad at it.

My second briar pipe turned out ok with rookie errors, but its the best smoker I have now. :thumbsup:

My 1/2 pipe or third is from a block that I cut in half lengthwise to make the one with the stem I bent earlier, it turned out pretty nice I guess, but as Sas was quick to point out, its fissures suck! The other half of the block is sitting on the shelf with the chuck and piles of sandpaper. I am allowing them all to become aquainted! :lol:

So for briar I guess, 50% as well for me!
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Sasquatch
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Re: What is your failing rate.

Post by Sasquatch »

I guess I've probably only totally wrecked about a half dozen pipes. Misdrills, a couple cracked shanks, a couple freaky lathe accidents. A couple were real pissers.
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pzhan
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Re: What is your failing rate.

Post by pzhan »

WOW..... There are some tragedy happened to the briar here. I feel a lot better now.. :lol:
I guess this is how we learn, and learn it the hard way.. :idea:
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andrew
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Re: What is your failing rate.

Post by andrew »

Everyone has a graveyard (of varying size) where some of their creations have ended up. However, i will say this, the only way I accumulate pipes right now is by keeping a screwed up pipe. That's probably a little sad, but it works for me (at least until i can afford to start buying some of the other guys pipes :D )
caskwith
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Re: What is your failing rate.

Post by caskwith »

Failure rate due to flaws is almost zero, most flaws I have been able to work around to some degree to get a smokable pipe, maybe not for sale but at least for myself or a friend. Again with human error I have done pretty well, as far as I see it the only thing you can really do that won't turn out a smokable pipe (again not for sale but for friends, family or yourself) is to sand through the bowl. I have done this on 2 pipes :mrgreen:
Massis
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Re: What is your failing rate.

Post by Massis »

The question is: what do you consider failure?

I have a stummel lying around where the shank is offset 4-5mm to the side of the bowl. Would make one hidious pipe if I finished it, but it would be smokeable.

I call that failure. I might one day finish it and smoke it myself, but I'd never give it to anyone else.
No pipe leaves my workshop if I'm not happy with it, even if it's smokeable and would be free. Not saying they have to be perfect (because my skill level doesn't allow for perfect pipes for the next x years) but they have to be at least moderately decent. I've done better, I know I can do better, so I'm not sending out pipes that are below my own level.
Archer
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Re: What is your failing rate.

Post by Archer »

Massis wrote:The question is: what do you consider failure?

I have a stummel lying around where the shank is offset 4-5mm to the side of the bowl. Would make one hidious pipe if I finished it, but it would be smokeable.

I call that failure. I might one day finish it and smoke it myself, but I'd never give it to anyone else.
No pipe leaves my workshop if I'm not happy with it, even if it's smokeable and would be free. Not saying they have to be perfect (because my skill level doesn't allow for perfect pipes for the next x years) but they have to be at least moderately decent. I've done better, I know I can do better, so I'm not sending out pipes that are below my own level.
I feel the same way, if I EVER sell a pipe, it would be a miracle because I'm too critical of my own work. But here's the thing I have slowly learned and am still learning, sometimes the things that we may agonize over, your average person thinks is beautiful just the way it is. I understand about OBVIOUS failure though, and I think that's what we are talking about...lamebrain, numb-nuts stuff and the unknown variable that we cant see coming (i.e. shitty briar). :wink:

Hey! Like my mom always told me at dinner about starving kids in Ethiopia, who would eat what I didn't want, the same is true for pipe-makers and smokers:

"Just think son, about all the starving pipe-makers and smokers around the world who would love to have that pipe..." :lol:

HAHA!

Let me just say my son loves it when I screw up a pen or something, he's got a massive collection! He can have my pipes when he's legal!

:thumbsup:
caskwith
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Re: What is your failing rate.

Post by caskwith »

Well I have two levels of failure I guess, failure in the sense the pipe is unsellable, which is obviously annoying since I wont make any money from it, and failure in that is isn't smokable. Anything that can't be sold is always used somehow, either I smoke it as a shop pipe, I sell it to a friend for a little bit of beer money or I give it away as a gift. What I do usually depends on the degree of the problem. Unsmokeablle pipes just go in the scrap bin as sometimes they will yield a useful piece of wood for something.
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staffwalker
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Re: What is your failing rate.

Post by staffwalker »

You guys shock me with your numbers of screwed up and uncompleted pipes. Tyler once said back when I was getting started that making pipes was the process of correcting your mistakes. (That's a paraphrase, don't remember the exact words but I remember what he was saying and wholeheartedly agree). I have made more than 250 pipes. At this point in time I have screwed up one that couldn't be recovered and I threw it in the recycle bin. I've made five that were marked with an X and given as door prizes to my local pipe club. All could have been sold except I knew what was wrong and how I had corrected it. In each case, I had to show the person who won the pipe what I saw as a problem but not a problem which would effect the smoke-ability. In each case the fixes were only noticeable when shown. There is almost always a way to correct a mistake. Sometimes you might have to put it aside for a time but eventually the method will suggest itself if you continue to think about it. The second pipe I ever made, drilling with a handheld drill, trying to make a bent, I drilled the smoke hole at too much of an angle so the drill came out of the block below the chamber. I make a plug using sand paper and a pocket knife and plugged the hole, so well done that to this day no one has ever noticed it unless pointed out. I then changed the bent to a straight and drilled another hole. I never considered throwing it in the bin, that block cost thirty bucks. Several of you talked about broken shanks. I've broken shanks and sanded into smoke holes but have always considered that an opportunity to do a bamboo shank. I have never ever considered throwing them in the bin. But maybe that's just me. I am after all an old fart who was born poor at the tail end of the great depression. During my growing up years all the old folks hammered into my skull that you never throw anything out because it will come in handy sometime. I suppose that's the way I approach throwing out a block because of a mistake. bob gilbert
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KurtHuhn
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Re: What is your failing rate.

Post by KurtHuhn »

pzhan wrote: So my question is what is your failing rate caused by human error?

About one per year these days. And it's usually due to being distracted while working and overdrilling something. Anything else can typically be made into another shape.
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mcgregorpipes
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Re: What is your failing rate.

Post by mcgregorpipes »

Hi everyone I'm new to the board. I'm new to pipe making, although for the past year I've been working part time in my own shop making other stuff for smoke shops, recently started making small wooden pipes from different hardwoods.. would love to start making pipes from briar.

Here's my question about failure rate - drilling the draught hole into the bowl seems like it would be easy to come in too high or off center. When the draught hole alignment isn't perfect did you just make a shop pipe? what is the acceptable tolerance?
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Alden
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Re: What is your failing rate.

Post by Alden »

what is the acceptable tolerance?
That depends on who you are trying to sell the pipe to.
Most customers who buy high end pipes expect impeccable drilling. A misaligned airway or one that comes in 1/4" above the bottom of the chamber is completely unacceptable.
A guy buying a $20 pipe to smoke his ganja in could probably give a shit.
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Growley
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Re: What is your failing rate.

Post by Growley »

futodugouts wrote:Hi everyone I'm new to the board. I'm new to pipe making, although for the past year I've been working part time in my own shop making other stuff for smoke shops, recently started making small wooden pipes from different hardwoods.. would love to start making pipes from briar.

Here's my question about failure rate - drilling the draught hole into the bowl seems like it would be easy to come in too high or off center. When the draught hole alignment isn't perfect did you just make a shop pipe? what is the acceptable tolerance?
I agree that it depends on who you're selling to and for how much. But, more importantly to me, what am "I" willing to put out there as a product with my name on it? Having a smoke hole that's a little high isn't that uncommon in cheap pipes, but cheap pipes aren't my goal, ridiculously expensive pipes are, not for the sake of the dollar alone, but I want to make pipes that are worth a lot because of the execution and craftsmanship and that means getting them right. If I drill a pipe wrong it becomes a shop pipe.

Everyone is different and I'm not saying my way is right. Ha, the pipes I'm putting out today will probably embarrass me 10 years from now :D
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Ocelot55
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Re: What is your failing rate.

Post by Ocelot55 »

You've got to start somewhere. I don't think I've made a single pipe that was up to my standards, but I don't need another 40 or so pipes. I keep the really atrocious mistakes, but for me, if my draft hole is a hair high I'll consider that in the price and let the customer know before it's bought.

As far as concrete tolerances, I try to get my draft hole aligned within a little more than 1/16" any direction. If if falls outside that range it will probably be a second. If the draft hole is off by more than an eighth I usually keep it for myself or chuck it.
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Re: What is your failing rate.

Post by smokindawg »

I've had my share of mistakes but haven't had drilling problems in a long time. I square my blocks, drill the airway first and then when I get close on the chamber to airway junction going very slowly on my drilling until its just right.
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d.huber
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Re: What is your failing rate.

Post by d.huber »

So far I've finished 3 pipes, one which involved a major mistake, one that was drilled for me, and one that was the best I could do at the time. I'm currently working on three a little at a time where two have been drilled by hand. I've ruined two blocks, one by drilling through the bottom of the chamber and the other by shaping too close to the bottom of the chamber.

So... a total of 6 hand drilled pipes with 2 of those being destroyed because of human error. However, if you include the one that got finished but received a major "re-imagining," my fail rate is 50%.

Now if you want to talk about pipes that don't entirely live up to ones standards due to lack of knowledge or experience, my fail rate is 100%. :P :lol:
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Kenny
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Re: What is your failing rate.

Post by Kenny »

With stummels, I've made 6 and all have been keepers. (knock on wood!) BUT, I practiced a LOT on scrap before I started carving and drilling useable material.

When I decided I wanted to make pipes, I went and picked up a rough-cut 2"x4" at the local mill and used that for practice material. I drilled, carved and sanded every inch of it into "pipes", and it was a 12 footer!

My father, a 30+ year professional machinist, drilled perfection into my brain at a young age, and he taught me the importance of always double checking all my measurements. But the most important thing he ever taught me was to just walk away if I start to get tired or frustrated, and to never rush to get something done, as you will always end up starting over if you do.

Granted, I still screw up, and my pipes are FAR from perfect, they're far from nice to be honest, but by slowing down, paying attention and taking a breather once I start to get frustrated, I make fewer mistakes and a lot less firewood!

But, hand-cut stems on the other hand, they seem to get the best of me more often than not! Well, it's the slot that kills me, to be completely honest. I ruin more good stems by mucking up the slot than you'd care to know. I was cheating for a while there, just giving them to my father and having him cut the mouthpiece slot with a 1/16" end-mill, but I was never going to get better doing it that way, so I'm back at it, trying to get it right, still having all kinds of trouble.

To be 100% honest, in well over 20 tries, I've not got a single slot right yet. Some have been "ok", but most just aren't that good at all. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I suspect I'm using the wrong tools for the job. (I recently saw these "X-Acto saws, which I think will help and be much easier than files alone)
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