drilling a bent...best options

[staffwalker]

Since I am a drill press guy the inclination is, if a straight to square end of block with foresner (sp) bit, change to mortise bit, drill nortise, then drill smoke hole and finally drill tobacco chamber. When I do something that requires the angle of the smoke hole to be several degrees from the angle of the mortise as with bents, I do something different. I square the end, drill the smoke hole, then drill the mortise. This way I can keep looking in the mortise until the smoke hole is absolutely centered in the mortise. This does away with any guessing about the junction where the two meet and also does away with ever having to ramp the smoke hole to meet the mortise. If by some chance the mortise winds up too short, I simply add a small extention. I always use a 1/2" mortise for bents. If the deepness is correct and 1/2" seems too large, and I'm not adding an extention, I just take a plug of wood, turn the outside to 1/2", drill a hole the size of the mortise I want and plug the 1/2" mortise. bob gilbert

[timothy thorpe]

thanks guys...i did a 1/4 bent on the lathe with no problem...i am a fast on the drill press..

[taharris]

You don't have to do all of the notching and cutting a shallow hole in the bottom of the mortise if you drill the smoke hole first, then drill the bowl down to it, then chuck it back up a drill your mortise down to the intersection with the smoke hole.

Rad

Why do you drill the bowl before the mortise? I drill the smoke hole and then the mortise, then fit the stem and turn it down to size and then the bowl last.

Just curious.

Todd

[RadDavis]

You don't have to do all of the notching and cutting a shallow hole in the bottom of the mortise if you drill the smoke hole first, then drill the bowl down to it, then chuck it back up a drill your mortise down to the intersection with the smoke hole.

Rad

Why do you drill the bowl before the mortise? I drill the smoke hole and then the mortise, then fit the stem and turn it down to size and then the bowl last.

Just curious.

Todd

I do the same on a straight pipe.

On a bent pipe, It makes more sense to me to drill the two holes that intersect first, without having to re-chuck the block.

Rad

[wmolaw]

You don't have to do all of the notching and cutting a shallow hole in the bottom of the mortise if you drill the smoke hole first, then drill the bowl down to it, then chuck it back up a drill your mortise down to the intersection with the smoke hole.

Rad

Why do you drill the bowl before the mortise? I drill the smoke hole and then the mortise, then fit the stem and turn it down to size and then the bowl last.

Just curious.

Todd

I do the same on a straight pipe.

On a bent pipe, It makes more sense to me to drill the two holes that intersect first, without having to re-chuck the block.

Rad

? Now I am confused. I thought you said drilled the smoke hole, then re-chucked and drilled the tobacco chamber, then re-chucked and drilled the mortise. Is that incorrect?

Seems to me that on a bent pipe, all holes intersect.

What am I missing here?

[RadDavis]

You don't have to do all of the notching and cutting a shallow hole in the bottom of the mortise if you drill the smoke hole first, then drill the bowl down to it, then chuck it back up a drill your mortise down to the intersection with the smoke hole.

Rad

I do the same on a straight pipe.

On a bent pipe, It makes more sense to me to drill the two holes that intersect first, without having to re-chuck the block.

Rad

? Now I am confused. I thought you said drilled the smoke hole, then re-chucked and drilled the tobacco chamber, then re-chucked and drilled the mortise. Is that incorrect?

Seems to me that on a bent pipe, all holes intersect.

What am I missing here?

I said, "drill the smoke hole first, then drill the bowl down to it". There's nothing there about re-chucking. Of course all holes intersect on any pipe.

The smoke hole and bowl intersect on the bottom of the bowl. Both can be drilled without re-chucking the stummel. You drill the smoke hole, loosen the chuck enough to turn the stummel so that you're now drilling the bowl. Tighten back down and drill the bowl.

Then take the stummel out of the chuck. Re-chuck the stummel and drill the mortise.

Of course all of this is assuming you're using a two jaw chuck with pins in it that is built to hold a block of briar. I may have assumed too much.

Rad

[wmolaw]

Okay, you can only embed three quotes in a reply. Lost my response, but here it is re-typed, though not as eloquent and pithy as my first!

LOL, you are assuming too much, actually. I use tower jaws in my wood lathe, no pins, so when I have to move the block it's just like re-chucking, not just rotating!

Although my drilling has been spot on since I began to use the lathe, I could see where just rotating the block would pretty much guarantee a spot on chamber/smoke hole intersection.

Damn, another potential purchase?

[Leus]

Of course all of this is assuming you're using a two jaw chuck with pins in it that is built to hold a block of briar. I may have assumed too much.

Ah. It does makes sense now.

[RadDavis]

Everyone posts from their own point of view, and I'm sitting here wondering, "Why are they taking the stummel off the lathe when they don't have to?"

Rad

[RadDavis]

I might also mention that if you're not doing it the way I do you are doing it totally wrong. Especially Bob Gilbert.

Rad

[staffwalker]

Rad, I'll teach you how to make "true" handmade pipes if you will teach me which fly to use when I go on my annual trip to CO in Aug. Picking flies is much more difficult than making pipes. bob gilbert

[staffwalker]

Okay, you can only embed three quotes in a reply. Lost my response, but here it is re-typed, though not as eloquent and pithy as my first!

LOL, you are assuming too much, actually. I use tower jaws in my wood lathe, no pins, so when I have to move the block it's just like re-chucking, not just rotating!

Although my drilling has been spot on since I began to use the lathe, I could see where just rotating the block would pretty much guarantee a spot on chamber/smoke hole intersection.

Damn, another potential purchase?

Take those two tower jaws to a local machine shop and have a center hole in each drilled and tapped to accept a 2" X 3/8" bolt. Take the bolts with you and have the bolts turned to a point. Then when you get everything lined up the way you want it, tighten the jaws, then screw the bolts in until the bolt points penetrate the block. When you have finished drilling your shank end, release the chuck jaws, turn the block to desired position and reengage the bolt holes, tighten jaws. This is basically what I do with my drill press vise rig, works every time, repositioning the point holes ensures the block hasn't moved. Mark one jaw and never move it, do all your adjusting from the opposite side this will insure you never get the block out of alignment left or right. bob gilbert

[RadDavis]

Okay, you can only embed three quotes in a reply. Lost my response, but here it is re-typed, though not as eloquent and pithy as my first!

LOL, you are assuming too much, actually. I use tower jaws in my wood lathe, no pins, so when I have to move the block it's just like re-chucking, not just rotating!

Although my drilling has been spot on since I began to use the lathe, I could see where just rotating the block would pretty much guarantee a spot on chamber/smoke hole intersection.

Damn, another potential purchase?

Take those two tower jaws to a local machine shop and have a center hole in each drilled and tapped to accept a 2" X 3/8" bolt. Take the bolts with you and have the bolts turned to a point. Then when you get everything lined up the way you want it, tighten the jaws, then screw the bolts in until the bolt points penetrate the block. When you have finished drilling your shank end, release the chuck jaws, turn the block to desired position and reengage the bolt holes, tighten jaws. This is basically what I do with my drill press vise rig, works every time, repositioning the point holes ensures the block hasn't moved. Mark one jaw and never move it, do all your adjusting from the opposite side this will insure you never get the block out of alignment left or right. bob gilbert

Bingo! Maybe you're not so wrong after all.

Rad

[wmolaw]

Rad, I'll teach you how to make "true" handmade pipes if you will teach me which fly to use when I go on my annual trip to CO in Aug. Picking flies is much more difficult than making pipes. bob gilbert

Got that right.

[wmolaw]

Okay, you can only embed three quotes in a reply. Lost my response, but here it is re-typed, though not as eloquent and pithy as my first!

LOL, you are assuming too much, actually. I use tower jaws in my wood lathe, no pins, so when I have to move the block it's just like re-chucking, not just rotating!

Although my drilling has been spot on since I began to use the lathe, I could see where just rotating the block would pretty much guarantee a spot on chamber/smoke hole intersection.

Damn, another potential purchase?

Take those two tower jaws to a local machine shop and have a center hole in each drilled and tapped to accept a 2" X 3/8" bolt. Take the bolts with you and have the bolts turned to a point. Then when you get everything lined up the way you want it, tighten the jaws, then screw the bolts in until the bolt points penetrate the block. When you have finished drilling your shank end, release the chuck jaws, turn the block to desired position and reengage the bolt holes, tighten jaws. This is basically what I do with my drill press vise rig, works every time, repositioning the point holes ensures the block hasn't moved. Mark one jaw and never move it, do all your adjusting from the opposite side this will insure you never get the block out of alignment left or right. bob gilbert

That's a great idea, now I just have to find a local machine shop. Thanks.

[ToddJohnson]

By the way, if you happen to be hand drilling--which I am about 98% of the time--then you can't drill the air hole before the mortise. The bit simply won't track correctly if there is already a hole there. The best sequence for hand drilling is mortise, draft hole, tobacco chamber. If you're drilling at an extreme angle, you can use a larger mortise, or even a "false mortise" where you drill an oversized mortise to increase the angle at which the draft hole can be drilled, and then sleeve the mortise with briar to reduce the size of the mortise back down to something more standard, like 5/16". The problem with this is that the air hole can never be re-drilled twenty years later when it's all gunked up. Of course this problem can be mitigated by using a bendable file, but I digress. Bo used to do it, so it must be okay, right?

TJ

[The Smoking Yeti]

I personally like using 5/16 mortises, which makes bent pipes a trick. A simple solution for me, is 3/8" Delrin- just drill it out for 5/16" then drill the mortise at 3/8" for the extra leeway for the angle on the airway. After the airway is drilled(dead center obviously or it'll fail) I can glue in the 3/8" Delrin ring, which will also help ensure a long lasting tight fit, and it looks pretty professional. So anyways- I'm right, ya'll are all off base.

Cheers.

Yeti

[ToddJohnson]

I personally like using 5/16 mortises, which makes bent pipes a trick. A simple solution for me, is 3/8" Delrin- just drill it out for 5/16" then drill the mortise at 3/8" for the extra leeway for the angle on the airway. After the airway is drilled(dead center obviously or it'll fail) I can glue in the 3/8" Delrin ring, which will also help ensure a long lasting tight fit, and it looks pretty professional. So anyways- I'm right, ya'll are all off base.

Cheers.

Yeti

Yes, that's what's called a "false mortise." The only problem is that if you're using a Delrin tenon, you've got a Delrin on Delrin joint, which actually creates more, rather than less, friction in the mortise/tenon joint. Of course you can always cut a standard Ebonite tenon if you're using a Delrin sleeve for the mortise, and then you've got the joint you're looking for.

TJ

[The Smoking Yeti]

Yeah, I can thankfully now cut an ebonite tenon(yay4lathe) so the delrin is viable.

[wmolaw]

By the way, if you happen to be hand drilling--which I am about 98% of the time--then you can't drill the air hole before the mortise. The bit simply won't track correctly if there is already a hole there. The best sequence for hand drilling is mortise, draft hole, tobacco chamber. If you're drilling at an extreme angle, you can use a larger mortise, or even a "false mortise" where you drill an oversized mortise to increase the angle at which the draft hole can be drilled, and then sleeve the mortise with briar to reduce the size of the mortise back down to something more standard, like 5/16". The problem with this is that the air hole can never be re-drilled twenty years later when it's all gunked up. Of course this problem can be mitigated by using a bendable file, but I digress. Bo used to do it, so it must be okay, right?

TJ

I think that's true even if you are drilling using a lathe, or drill press. I went the airway, mortise sequence this weekend and it was TOUGH to get the mortise drill bit to track properly. I can see how this would be the best sequence for a bent pipe with any sort of drilling, mortise, airway, chamber.

Thanks, for the great ideas.

You speak of a bendable file, does anyone use sanding cord for smoothing/increasing stem airways and even stummel airways?

http://www.amazon.com/Sanding-Cord-Roun ... nding+cord

It comes in various widths. I love a good draw and having bought some estate pipes that do not have the draw I prefer, and not being able to redrill as the stem has been bent, I have found this stuff to be invaluable!