UnderBender refutation
Re: UnderBender refutation
Agreed. My point was never to say that any of these pipes are pinnacles of design and as I said the Neptune is off. My point was to show that it seems that a majority of makers are choosing underbent. I couldn't find any examples among carvers I know George respects like Bruce, Adam or Chris Asteriou of overbent stems. My original question, succinctly stated without any attitude and clearly stating that I wasn't talking about the extremes on either end, was why? I slightly underbend because I think it looks best and it works for both clenchers and hangers and if you tell me that something I am doing is wrong I want to know why in an objective sense not a subjective opinion because we all know what those are worth. I totally understand the idea that extremely underbent stems end up throwing tobacco in your eye when you clench and extremely overbent stems drop tobacco in your lap if you let it hang slightly. Seems to me that makes both wrong but I'm not talking about extremes, or at least George's original post didn't make it clear that he was only talking about extremes, in which case define at what point it becomes extreme and we can all learn from his expertise.
I hate the fact that I decided to get more active on the forum because now I look like a total douche who gets all huffy at the slightest provocation but I think that those of you who know me know that's not true. Sorry if I came off like a douche anywhere in here. I'll keep my own thoughts back in my head where they belong.
I hate the fact that I decided to get more active on the forum because now I look like a total douche who gets all huffy at the slightest provocation but I think that those of you who know me know that's not true. Sorry if I came off like a douche anywhere in here. I'll keep my own thoughts back in my head where they belong.
- sandahlpipe
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Re: UnderBender refutation
I didn't feel like you came across like a douche. I actually liked what you said. George's MO is such that he's gotta find where everyone's buttons are so he can push them. You're making valuable contributions here. I, for one, would like to see you continue to contribute.NathanA wrote:I hate the fact that I decided to get more active on the forum because now I look like a total douche who gets all huffy at the slightest provocation but I think that those of you who know me know that's not true. Sorry if I came off like a douche anywhere in here. I'll keep my own thoughts back in my head where they belong.
Re: UnderBender refutation
Come on now, it is great having you back, stick around. I don't think Bombastic, exaggerated, facetious, over the top opinions are anything new around here. This was no different than Rad telling someone their pipe is horrible and hoping that helps, or Sasquatch warning bowl coatings come at the expense of eternal damnation.
I don't think George really wants to line up and shoot anyone who underbends a stem, and I don't think his initial argument was meant to be more than an exaggerated statement of how he feels personally.
It has sparked some good debate, and more than a little fun, but I think it falls firmly in the category of personal opinion. I think it lands on one side or the other depending on whether you tend towards classic or modern aesthetics. I like both but tend to follow classic styling more than modern.
I don't think George really wants to line up and shoot anyone who underbends a stem, and I don't think his initial argument was meant to be more than an exaggerated statement of how he feels personally.
It has sparked some good debate, and more than a little fun, but I think it falls firmly in the category of personal opinion. I think it lands on one side or the other depending on whether you tend towards classic or modern aesthetics. I like both but tend to follow classic styling more than modern.
Ryan Alden
http://www.aldenpipes.com
http://www.aldenpipes.com
Re: UnderBender refutation
Thanks, fellas. I honestly was just trying to give a little crap back to the old man but apparently I wasn't too clear. I'll try to make my sarcasm and attitude shine through a little more.
Re: UnderBender refutation
Cool, your crap shines?! Oh wait I think I got confused.NathanA wrote:Thanks, fellas. I honestly was just trying to give a little crap back to the old man but apparently I wasn't too clear. I'll try to make my sarcasm and attitude shine through a little more.
- PremalChheda
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Re: UnderBender refutation
If I want to insult a pipe maker, I will call him an overbender. If I want to really insult a pipe maker, I will call him an underbender.
Premal Chheda
http://www.chhedapipes.com - Just for fun
http://www.smokershaven.com - New & Estate Pipes
http://www.rawkrafted.com - Pipe Making Tools, Materials, & Supplies
http://www.chhedapipes.com - Just for fun
http://www.smokershaven.com - New & Estate Pipes
http://www.rawkrafted.com - Pipe Making Tools, Materials, & Supplies
Re: UnderBender refutation
There's another joke in there about pipe turds and buffing wheels and stuff but I'm too lazy to assemble it from the raw materials.finster wrote:Cool, your crap shines?! Oh wait I think I got confused.
Ryan Richardson
R2 Pipes/Ryan's Luxury Goods
______________________________________
"You can't convince a stupid person that what he's doing is stupid, because the stupidness inside him is telling him that it's smart"
R2 Pipes/Ryan's Luxury Goods
______________________________________
"You can't convince a stupid person that what he's doing is stupid, because the stupidness inside him is telling him that it's smart"
Re: UnderBender refutation
Ratimus wrote:There's another joke in there about pipe turds and buffing wheels and stuff but I'm too lazy to assemble it from the raw materials.finster wrote:Cool, your crap shines?! Oh wait I think I got confused.
You can't polish a pipe turd but you can re-shape it at the wheel?
You can't polish a pipe turd but you can rusticate all hell out of it and apply a thick coat of varnish?
You can't polish a pipe turd but you can use bright stems and stains instead?
Re: UnderBender refutation
Don't know about underbending, but according to my wife I'm an underachiever.
Does this help?
Does this help?
- Tyler
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Re: UnderBender refutation
I can only remember one time being offended by a browser at a pipe show. He (and his wife) walked up to my table, he picked up a pipe, and told me I didn't know what I was doing because stems need to be bent to parallel with the top of the bowl. He claimed to own a pipe factory, and to know much more about pipes than I did. He was serious.
I wanted to hit him in the mouth.
I wanted to hit him in the mouth.
Tyler Lane Pipes
http://www.tylerlanepipes.com
http://www.tylerlanepipes.com
- seamonster
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Re: UnderBender refutation
I'm waiting for someone to ask "Are these your husband's pipes". THEN I will get to punch someone......I CAN'T WAIT!!!Tyler wrote:I can only remember one time being offended by a browser at a pipe show. He (and his wife) walked up to my table, he picked up a pipe, and told me I didn't know what I was doing because stems need to be bent to parallel with the top of the bowl. He claimed to own a pipe factory, and to know much more about pipes than I did. He was serious.
I wanted to hit him in the mouth.
Am I Calamity Jane or Annie Oakley??...depends on the day.
www.ladybriar.com
www.ladybriar.com
Re: UnderBender refutation
I really don't think this is a big deal. Like a lot of things in the pipe world (not all), this is preference. Sometimes I like my stems "underbent" (which I believe means it wasn't bent enough and not that it was bent under the line of the bowl or something similar?). As Jeremiah said, it provides a visual feel of tension or rigidity. George is very familiar with classic makers like Dunhill, Charatan, Barling, etc. They are great companies with awesome history, but I don't consider them to be the pinnacle of pipe-making (not to put words in George's mouth). I think many of their stems are bent too far, and many of their designs feel closer to facile instead of elegant simplicity. Asteriou is the definition of elegant simplicity, and while there are exceptions, many of the classic English companies standards appear closer to "basic" instead of elegant. For those of you who just experienced a marked increase in your blood-pressure, please don't take that as an insult to those names. In my opinion, there's no factory that comes close to the high level of artistry (artisanal-istry?) that Asteriou/Gracik/Davidson brings to the briar.
I've never seen a danish pipe with underbent stem on it, btw. They're all perfectly bent.
I just realized there's a pretty big caveat to what I said above, and that is that there's still a right and wrong way to underbend a stem. Which is to say that it should still follow a certain visual rule. Just like most stems can be different lengths on a given stummel (not ANY length, but specific lengths), a stem can be bent a different (specific) angles and still work well with the composition.
I've never seen a danish pipe with underbent stem on it, btw. They're all perfectly bent.
I just realized there's a pretty big caveat to what I said above, and that is that there's still a right and wrong way to underbend a stem. Which is to say that it should still follow a certain visual rule. Just like most stems can be different lengths on a given stummel (not ANY length, but specific lengths), a stem can be bent a different (specific) angles and still work well with the composition.