Best classic shape to learn first?

[Adui]

So, I see in several places, including my first post, suggestions to learn a classic shape. The Billiard is always suggested. Is this THE best to learn first, or would it be equally rewarding to learn another classic shape? I find straight pipes in general somewhat boring, and would want to do a bent billiard if that shape is done. But I really like the Rhodesian and Bulldog shape. Would I be setting myself back to go with one of those as a first classic instead?

[RickB]

Do a straight billiard. I smoked for 20 years and didn't like them either until I started trying to learn how to carve one, but when they come together right, they're just sublime. I've done 11 billiard attempts at this point and still haven't gotten one totally right, but I can see direct ways that they've improved my shaping elsewhere. Some of those are also the main pipes I reach for for my own use at this point.

[n80]

I'm new at this so I might be mistaken here but I think there are several reasons the straight billiard is chosen. First, it is a popular shape. One source says it is the most popular. Second, it has fairly well established parameters, possibly more so than any other typical pipe shape. This allows the person doing the critique to have a firm basis to critique from. If you make a freehand pipe then the only solid basis for critique on the shaping would be subjective. Make no mistake, the experts here can critique a freehand but it will be more on artistic grounds and possibly usability. If someone critiques your freehand and says the angle of your stem relative to the curve of the bowl is off you can counter with "I did it that way on purpose and I like it that way". With a billiard if the line of the back of the bowl slants to far outward at the base, well, it will be pointed out and there is no real argument.

Having said all that, the folks here are perfectly capable of critiquing the finer points of a Rhodesian or a bulldog or a Dublin even though those tend to be open to considerable interpretation. So I think any of those would be fine.

But the conventional wisdom is that if you learn to execute a straight billiard well, then you have the skill to approach the other styles in a purposeful way.

The problem is that you might end up with a pile of semi-flawed pipes that you don't like the shape off. However, I told my son-in-law to pick out any of my pipes to give for his friends for Christmas and one of the first ones he picked was my first billiards with all its various flaws. So even for your first trials someone is likely willing to take it off your hands.

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12098

[Flygare]

I second both Rick and George on making a billiard first. It may seem like an easy task at first but the shape is filled with potential pits to fall in.

Here is some of the ”rules” of the shape that I wish I had known when I made my first billiard. (And please correct me if I am wrong somewhere, I am also a beginner).

• The bowl has a slight cant forward, 2-3 degrees from a straight angle.

• Bowl height above shank should be the approximate shank length.

• Total bowl height should be 3-4 shank widths.

• The shank isn’t straight, there is a very small taper from bowl to shank face. (Like 2 mm on 40 mm length)

• The bottom part of the pipe should be behind the bowl center of the pipe (towards the shank). This usually means you have to angle the airway upwards.

Keep us posted and good luck!

/Henrik


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[Adui]

Question: "The bowl has a slight cant forward" is this just on the outside, or is the chamber also slightly canted forward? Important for drilling to know this in advanced!

[Flygare]

The drilling is canted forward, so both chamber and bowl. The canting is so small that it looks almost straight but if you would drill at 90 degrees it suddenly looks wrong.

The devil is in the detail... [emoji3]


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[Sasquatch]

It's mostly been said, and I agree, being out of this school myself.

I came into pipe making just assuming I'd be good at it, and I was good at the "easy" stuff - I had a well equipped shop, lots of carving and finishing experience, etc. I could build a pipe with no real problem, honestly. An ugly pipe. And I made a bunch until I went back and tried to really dial in my shaping, understand proportions, and learn to make pipes that people wanted.

Learning the subleties of what one bulge over here does versus this flat section over here.... billiards teach that, and then you go to make some other pipe, and presto, it looks better because you are seeing better.

Make whatever you like - make some bent pipes, have fun, bring it all here and we'll talk about them. Pop a straight billiard into the mix now and again.

[wdteipen]

Great advice on this thread. Ditto all of it. Billiards are boring to most new pipemakers who typically want to make something cool like a dual chambered reverse calabash jewel encrusted dragon skull. I was in that boat when I started as well. I didn't get decent at it until I made several straight billiards. Like Sasquatch said, make the artsy fun stuff inspired by your imagination but devote time to making straight billiards until you can make a good one. Post what you make. You'll get the best critique on your billiards and you will likely see the most overall improvement in your skill after each one. Wax on. Wax off.

Hope this helps.

Mr. Miyagi

[Adui]

Thank you all, keep the advice coming! I plan to make a billiard next. To compound the challenge it will almost assuredly be the first time I drill the block myself...

I am also going to make the inspired shape I had in mind, and either a Rhodesian or a Bulldog from the blocks I'm getting (Assuming I don't trash them all trying to learn to drill)

[RickB]

Thank you all, keep the advice coming! I plan to make a billiard next. To compound the challenge it will almost assuredly be the first time I drill the block myself...

I am also going to make the inspired shape I had in mind, and either a Rhodesian or a Bulldog from the blocks I'm getting (Assuming I don't trash them all trying to learn to drill)

That's basically exactly what I've done, and I think it's served me pretty well. Got the idea from Doc but basically I do one straight billiard in every group of 2-4 pipes I'm working on at a given time.

[Flygare]

Thank you all, keep the advice coming! I plan to make a billiard next. To compound the challenge it will almost assuredly be the first time I drill the block myself...

I am also going to make the inspired shape I had in mind, and either a Rhodesian or a Bulldog from the blocks I'm getting (Assuming I don't trash them all trying to learn to drill)

If you haven’t lot of experience in drilling it could be wise to use some crap wood for some tryouts. Could save a block or two...

Briar will behave a bit different but in the basic task at getting two holes to meet at the exact spot any wood will do.


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[n80]

Getting the drilling right is much harder than it looks. I was able to get functional results with a hand drill. But if you do it that way prepare for failures and/or off-center/ugly drilling.

A drill press makes a big difference but can still be dicey (at least on my 90 year old drill press).

If you have a drill press get the block marked up with chamber, mortise and draw hole and then lined up in a vice for the chamber drilling. I use a Forschner bit first and then round the chamber with a spade bit from VF. Do not remove the block between bits. If you have hole saw bits you can remove the drill bit from it and cut a general bowl shape....but again, do not remove the block until you have this done. This keeps everything centered and true.

Next, remove the block and then clamp it for drilling the mortise. Drill the mortise. At this point you can also use a smaller hole saw with drill bit removed to shape a perfectly straight stem (if that's what you're doing). Again, do not remove the block from the vice. If the draw hole is in line with the shank/mortise you can now drill the draw hole. This way everything should be lined up and true. If the draw hole is at an angle to the long axis of the shank/mortise then loosen your vice and tilt the block accordingly.

This basic work flow has worked well for me..........except for the last time where it went straight to heck....but it was on me, not the work flow.

Anyway, I'm also a beginner so take this all with a grain of salt and modify according to your experience and advice from more advanced carvers.

George

[RickB]

Getting the drilling right is much harder than it looks. I was able to get functional results with a hand drill. But if you do it that way prepare for failures and/or off-center/ugly drilling.

A drill press makes a big difference but can still be dicey (at least on my 90 year old drill press).

If you have a drill press get the block marked up with chamber, mortise and draw hole and then lined up in a vice for the chamber drilling. I use a Forschner bit first and then round the chamber with a spade bit from VF. Do not remove the block between bits. If you have hole saw bits you can remove the drill bit from it and cut a general bowl shape....but again, do not remove the block until you have this done. This keeps everything centered and true.

Next, remove the block and then clamp it for drilling the mortise. Drill the mortise. At this point you can also use a smaller hole saw with drill bit removed to shape a perfectly straight stem (if that's what you're doing). Again, do not remove the block from the vice. If the draw hole is in line with the shank/mortise you can now drill the draw hole. This way everything should be lined up and true. If the draw hole is at an angle to the long axis of the shank/mortise then loosen your vice and tilt the block accordingly.

This basic work flow has worked well for me..........except for the last time where it went straight to heck....but it was on me, not the work flow.

Anyway, I'm also a beginner so take this all with a grain of salt and modify according to your experience and advice from more advanced carvers.

George

This is basically exactly how I did it for my first few pipes, though I'd made a little shitty jig out of 2x4s because I didn't have a proper vise on the drill press chamber, though I did set up little holding pins to rotate around just like a pipe making chuck. It worked fine, you just have to be careful and as you said, don't move things around any more than you have to. The lathe is just easier/faster.

[sandahlpipe]

The point of the billiard exercise for a beginner is to carve the shape indelibly into your mind’s eye. Once that’s accomplished (and frankly, very few people have the discipline to see it through to 100%—most new makers stop at around halfway) you’re ready to make a bent billiard. It’s really the flow of the bottom line that takes some practice to “see”.

Eventually, you can get to the point where you see (or feel) asymmetry of 1000th of an inch off.

But really, once you arrive with a billiard, it’s not like you have a dozen more shapes equally challenging to learn. If you do it right with the billiard, the specific challenges of any other shape are minor in comparison.


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[DocAitch]

You can make a clamp that uses a free hand drilling principle to do your drilling on a drill press.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11115
I have modified the method since this post, but the principle of using an aiming dimple on the stummel and a pin in the clamp is the same.
PM me if you want details.
DocAitch