Wet briar

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brownleafbeardsman
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Wet briar

Post by brownleafbeardsman »

Hello, guys. I spend a few hours a day reading back through previous posts from over the years. The content is incredible. It's very cool to see some of the big guys here and see their early posts.
I have come across many posts in regards to briar, where to get briar, etc..
One thing I was wondering, is there a way to tell if briar is too wet? Or when you should set a block aside to dry?
I have read some of these posts and I know the weight of the briar could be a good sign.
Is there anything else that I might be overlooking?

Also, what would be a good wait period for blocks that are deemed too wet?


Thanks in advance, guys. :D
DocAitch
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Re: Wet briar

Post by DocAitch »

I have been told by one of the suppliers to let one order sit for at least 6 months before cutting. I have no way of measuring how wet briar is except to heft it in my hand.
Todd Bannard (Sasquatch here) deals with multiple briar suppliers and encounters wet briar frequently, but he is also in the enviable position of being able to wait for years before cutting any particular lot.
He will probably answer more definitively.
DocAitch
"Hettinger, if you stamp 'hand made' on a dog turd, some one will buy it."
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" Never show an idiot an unfinished pipe!"- same guy
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brownleafbeardsman
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Re: Wet briar

Post by brownleafbeardsman »

Thanks, Walt.
Yeah, that is what I was guessing. I'll just keep feeling each block and trying to keep a good idea of what a block of a certain size should feel like.
The weight difference between some blocks is definitely a considerable amount.
Maybe I can try weighing some of the heavier blocks and letting them sit for a few months, and weighing them again.
caskwith
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Re: Wet briar

Post by caskwith »

Weigh it, write that weight on the block. Weigh it again in a few weeks, write that weight on the block. When the weight stops falling (or is fluctuating up/down by a few grams) it's ready.

If you want to speed up the drying you can cut/drill the airway and chamber and then let it sit. It's a little riskier for cracking but you can dry a block in a few weeks doing this. You will need a good method of re-chucking the pipe for final work though.
DocAitch
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Re: Wet briar

Post by DocAitch »

caskwith wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:40 am Weigh it, write that weight on the block. Weigh it again in a few weeks, write that weight on the block. When the weight stops falling (or is fluctuating up/down by a few grams) it's ready.
Very ingenious and practical, Chris.
DocAitch
"Hettinger, if you stamp 'hand made' on a dog turd, some one will buy it."
-Charles Hollyday, pipe maker, reluctant mentor, and curmudgeon
" Never show an idiot an unfinished pipe!"- same guy
LatakiaLover
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Re: Wet briar

Post by LatakiaLover »

Burn the blocks your fireplace. The faster it disappears, the drier the wood was. The longer it lasts, the wetter it was.

After it's gone you'll know which blocks you should have let rest, and which ones you could have carved immediately.

Duh

I can't believe you carver guys need help with a question like this.
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Sasquatch
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Re: Wet briar

Post by Sasquatch »

Without waxing mystical, I will offer a few thoughts. First, there's no such thing as "dry" briar. Like any wood, it has a component of moisture based on the ambient humidity. In winter, my briar is more dry than it is the following summer, because it's really really really dry around here in winter. I know Ernie Markle had similar issues when he was in Phoenix - there are times of the year you send a pipe out and it goes to Georgia or Houston or something and it's swampy humid there, and the pipe gathers moisture and the stem falls out because the briar literally gets bigger. So point 1 for me is that briar is, to quote Severus Snape, ever changing and eternal.

But my potstickers are done, and if there's one thing more important than briar it's dumplings.... back in a few.
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Sasquatch
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Re: Wet briar

Post by Sasquatch »

Okay, had my dumplings, Rocco's working on a bowl of Lamb and Apple, wife's watching Star Trek, so I can focus. :thumbsup:

Briar comes out of the mill soaking wet, and often ships that way. Mimmo and Makis are pretty good about sending blocks that have had a little dry time, the wettest I've had were from Calabria, I think they were 30 days post boil. And I mean, the box is just humid, spongey, and the blocks dripping wet. BriarwoodSRL ships pretty wet too.

Wet briar is heavy, it bonks together with a real dull "clunk". Older, drier briar sounds almost like metal when you clink 'em, a real sharp sound.


So you have briar from where-ever, and probably the stuff is not even a year old. You might see moisture bleeding out when you cut the chamber, but again, that's gonna happen if the humidity in the room is above 50%, it's not really an indicator of anything in particular. I think 6 months is probably a good minimum for some kind of stabilization - if the stuff is drying and moving, your mortise will change sizes, any flush fitments, stem/shank transition etc will change. And some of this will happen anyway if you ship the pipe to the north pole, it just will. But if you look on eBay you'll see pipes where the stem joint just isn't good anymore where 30 years ago it was. The briar moves.

When you sit on a block for a long time, it gets harder, it changes color to a sort of uniform chestnut brown. And it becomes more stable, moves less, seasonally, than fresh wood. It's oxydized or petrified or something, I really don't know. But I've got wood here from the Romeo mill from 20 years ago, and it's just brown through and through. Romeo wood from about 10 years ago is a nice mellow golden color, and Romeo wood from 3 years ago is just a little grey, it's kind of colorless, but will eventually catch up. Fresh it's sort of a piney-yellow with some pink hue. In smoking, the older wood is noticeable, the break in time, any perceived change in the pipe for the user is very minimal, and I suspect that's the bonus here - I think when you smoke a pipe you accelerate whatever oxydizing processes are occuring with heat and moisture exchange. And that's sort of already occurred in these older blocks.

I watch these wet blocks twist and morph as they dry, and I think "Damn, good thing I didn't make a pipe out of that." Once they stabilize after a year or so I can recut them and they stay straight. At that point I stop worrying so much.

Mimmo suggests 2 years as being a point where the wood he ships has hit the important part of the curve - it changes more in those 2 years than in the next 2, as it were. And I won't disagree with that. I just think the longer you can sit on this shit, the better it is. I sent a customer of mine a pipe made from the very last block of Spanish wood that I had around here (hadn't bought since about 2012) a few years back, and he has a pile of my pipes, but this one blew him away. It was noticeably and remark-worthily different. 7 years on the shelf. Now, I think each mill tastes and smokes just a little different anyway, but when I send out pipes made from older wood, I get pretty consistent feedback on the smoking and break in, and often blind, I sometimes don't tell people what they are smoking. And it's always positive on older wood. I made a guy a zulu many years back, opened my box from Mimmo, found the piece, made the pipe. And it sucked, it never was really great. I wound up replacing it a year later. I think the briar was just too fresh. No slight to Mimmo, it was a very fresh piece.

I buy shitpiles of briar. I feel it's getting harder to come by for political and other reasons.... our fun little hobby is never going to be made easier by any government involved. So I buy what I can when I can. If someone retires, I buy their wood. If someone has a batch that grandpa bought, I buy it. This has left me with all kinds of neat stuff, Algerian from back when it was good, Spanish, Calabrian, Ligurian, Tuscan... really really nice to have all this stuff. The down side is that every different source finishes differently, tools different, sands different, stains different. So in terms of offering really consistent product, I don't really. (I was offered great advice ten years ago by a legit big time pipe maker, and he said "It really doesn't matter who you buy from. Buy only from them, get GOOD with that product." That was sound advice, and I've ignored it probably almost to the point of folly.) But I see briar as being like tobacco - buy it when you find it. At worst, you can sell it down the road. But it's not getting easier to come by. And I feel like the "good stuff" I'm seeing this year is less good, or at least I'm seeing less of it. I used to just knock out straight grain smooths any time I wanted - reach into the big bag and pull out a perfect block. Now, it's .... specialer. Lots of blocks being sold to lots of people, and everyone wants the good shit.

At the end of the day, many many pipes being made in the last 100 years are complete pieces of shit. Bad wood, bad geometry, bad stems. We can easily do better, and even if you sell a fairly fresh piece of wood, with a few smokes, it will likely sort itself out, is my thought. Mostly, our customers don't care. They like the shape, the blast, the stem work... this stuff is far more important to most pipe smokers than the provenance of the briar. I do have the occassional guy say "Okay I only want THIS wood from now on." but even then I'm not sure if I made them a pipe from the mill next door... would they notice? Or is what they like my stemwork and my drilling? I dunno. (We had a club pipe done, couple hundred units, a few years ago. Mine's adequate. And I've talked to 20 or so people about theirs, and of them, 1 single guy said "Yeah, I dunno, that briar felt just... a little green to me somehow. Pipe is fine, but...." and he's a huge pipe nerd, has tons of big league pipes. And I felt that way too, I felt the briar was just a little....peaky somehow, a little fresh. Can I prove it? No not really. And again, everyone else loved the pipes, so we're talking about something a little ethereal here anyhow.

Buy what you can afford to. Put the best blocks aside for next year. Or 5 years. Or 10. Build a stash of aged, top grade wood. Make pipes in the meantime.
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!
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seamonster
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Re: Wet briar

Post by seamonster »

** someone needs to get Sas a newsletter, or a podcast.
Nice read, pal.
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Sasquatch
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Re: Wet briar

Post by Sasquatch »

Dude I update my blog like every 3 years, whaddya want??
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LatakiaLover
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Re: Wet briar

Post by LatakiaLover »

UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
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seamonster
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Re: Wet briar

Post by seamonster »

[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

Sent from my bloopty-bloop using hooty-hoo.

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Sasquatch
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Re: Wet briar

Post by Sasquatch »

Jesus George where do you find this shit?
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brownleafbeardsman
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Re: Wet briar

Post by brownleafbeardsman »

Sas,
Thanks for the long reply, I enjoyed reading it.
I will take your advice and buy what I can, as well as the advice to weigh mine and take notes on it after some time passes.
I've definitely noticed what you had pointed out, how some briar just sounds way different when it gets knocked together.
I'll try to shelf my best pieces and let them age, and keep adding to my inventory.

Thanks again, everyone. :D
wdteipen
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Re: Wet briar

Post by wdteipen »

Nice synopsis, Todd. I'll add that I typically judge unscientifically by the weight feel of the block in hand. There is some variation in density from block to block more so from one briar mill to the next. These days, you're not likely to get dry blocks from any mill. I let my blocks sit for at least 3 years but I'm a hobbyist and have accumulated a surplus over the decade or so I've been buying.
Wayne Teipen
Teipen Handmade Briar Pipes
http://www.teipenpipes.com
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brownleafbeardsman
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Re: Wet briar

Post by brownleafbeardsman »

Thanks, Wayne. I think I will follow in your and Sas' footsteps and keep buying more that I can put up to acclimate for a good while!
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