Beginner's Question: Kit or from Scratch?

[TomM]

Greetings,

A few days ago I posted a message on the "Buy, Sell, and Trade" forum looking for any used pipemaking tools that might be available for sale. I'm looking to get started without spending too much. So far, no response, so with your permission I'll ask a couple of follow-up questions:

1) Is it best to begin with a couple of kits? That seems the easy way, and yet when I begin looking at the cost ($25+ per kit) it doesn't take too many kits to pay for a few basic tools.

2) Wouldn't it be better to invest in some moderately priced briar blanks and stems and learn by doing? I should make it clear I have some basic tools, including a bandsaw and drill press, but not a metal lathe. I still have to figure out whether a PIMO tenon turning tool is the way to go, and whether one needs that flush bit to properly mount the mouthpiece. I really don't know what tools are absolutely necessary to start. [I'm not even close to thinking about making my own mouthpieces--though it looks intriguing.]

3) While I'm at it, I've got another beginners question for you all. Is a tenon turning tool necessary with a metal lathe? If not, it seems like one of the small Chinese metal lathes like Grizzly or Harbor Freight sells might be a better investment than a $60 or even $250 tenon turning tool--but maybe I'm not getting this right.]

I've been thinking about this for a while but haven't yet taken the plunge. Any thoughts you are willing to share are appreciated.

Tom

[RadDavis]

Hi Tom,

1. I think kits are the way to go for a complete beginner.

You can make a pipe with a minimum of tools and determine if you want to go further with it. If you find that you really don't enjoy it as much as you thought you would, you're not stuck with a few thousand dollars worth of machinery.

2. If you have a band saw and drill press, then all you need is a few drill bits and tools for shaping and you're in business. A tenon turning tool will work fine for your first pipes. I used one for a year or so before I got a lathe.

3. A tenon turning tool isn't necessary with a lathe, but a tenon turning tool will cost you from $60-350. A proper lathe for making pipes will cost you around $1000-1500 at a minimum for a new one. You can get a used one for less, but you don't know what you're getting, and I have been that route. I won't do it again. If you decide to go for a lathe, get a Jet. I would stay away from Harbor Freight and Grizzly. They look the same as the Jet, but they aren't.

If you want the lathe for just stem work, a Taig might do it for you. Much less expensive, but you are limited as to what you can do.

Hope this helps,

Rad

[marks]

If you have never made a pipe before, a kit is the way to go. There is so much to learn in properly constructing and engineering a pipe, that to start from scratch would be almost overwhelming (at least for me it would have been). You can learn a lot working with kit pipes. Things such as how briar is removed with various files, knives, gouges, sandpaper, whatever can all be learned with a kit pipe. Also, you will have to finish the pipe, and you can begin learning that with a kit as well.

I began with a few kits, and all of them turned into smokable pipes without me having to fuss with tenon turning, button shaping, airway fiddling, etc. It also told me whether I wanted to continue in this endeavor without having to shell out $$$ for tools and equipment (as Rad mentioned).

For what it is worth, when you buy tools, buy quality. You will probably end up spending less money in the long run.

Before you get started, I also recommend that you peruse the old posts on this site. There is a ton of great information to help you get started. Also look at Tyler's site. there are some great instructions, videos, etc. there.

[jeff]

I'll speak to the contrary here because of my experience. I wouldn't necessarily start with a kit, if certain conditions are met. My first two pipes were made entirely from scratch. While I did not own any tooling at the time, I was able to use someone else's drill press and disc sander for basic shaping. Then I finished up the shaping with a dremel and hand shaped the tenon with sandpaper and a lot of elbow grease. Buffing was done with some cheapo buffing wheels and compound from ace hardware and my hand drill.

So, if you are resourceful, you might be able to try it from the start without a kit. Using a kit is fine if you're just trying it out, but I chose not to do it because I did not want to be limited in terms of the shape by someone else's engineering. However, if you do not have access to the requisite tools, I would certainly recommend beginning with kits to get a feel for the art.

In terms of buying tools, you'll find that in order to invest to buy the "right" ones that the weight is heavily toward kits. I would never recommend buying cheap tools. I've gone that route in the past despite advice to the contrary and only ended up replacing the soon-broken, or ineffective tools. Rad recommended a Jet lathe, which I would also suggest to you. But, dropping $1k on a single machine minus the necessary tooling (between $400 and $1.5k more) might not make sense at this point. So, in sum, I would recommend that you start with a kit if you don't have access to tools or take the plunge and try drilling if you do.

I hope this helps.

Jeff

[TomM]

Thanks to all three of you for your responses. I'm tending to think a couple of kits from Mark Tinsky or Tim West would be money well invested--then maybe it'll be time to get creative.

Now, for a different but related matter. I'm intrigued by some comments on other threads about the use of Delrin tenons. Am I correct in understanding that these can eliminate the need for a metal lathe for tenons? How about a tenon turning tool? I'm wondering if Delrin and a drill press might allow me to fit mouthpieces without having to put out the money (at least initially) for some of the more expensive equipment.

Again, thanks for taking time to respond. I appreciate it.

Tom

[achduliebe]

Hey Tom,

I have been using Delrin for a little while now. Also, I am currently making my pipes using a bandsaw and drill press. I use a forstner bit for facing and brad points for the mortise. I drill at the lowest setting on my drill press and take it very slow. It works pretty well. I will be switching my drilling to a wood lathe shortly, still building up the tooling for that.

[marks]

Tom, if you use delrin, you will not need a tenon turning tool. I actually made a jig to hold delrin in a vise to drill out the delrin, early on. It worked OK, but not well enough to be at the level of precision I wanted.

Drilling out the stem and keeping it square so there was no light gap between it and the shank, and having the drill bit go through the middle of the rod, from one end to the other was even more of an issue on the drill press than was the delrin. Here I had no such luck with the drill press. However, with the right materials, and the right set up I believe it might be possible to do. (Note that I say might be possible).

That being said, after drilling out a couple of stems in a crooked manner on the drill press, and drilling out the delrin in the same manner, I decided to get a lathe. Not that one can't do precision stem work on a drill press, I just wasn't that one. I figured by the time I spent enought time and money developing and getting jigs made to properly and securely hold the stem material on the drill press, it would be cheaper just to buy a lathe.

I still own the one finished pipe I made where I drilled the rod and the delrin on the drill press. It whistles at me every time I smoke it, and it always reminds me that anything less than total precision will reveal themselves in the finished product.

[achduliebe]

I'm with marks on this one. Eventhough I make pipes, currently, using a drill press I can not wait to get my lathe outfitted. It is sitting in the box waiting for me to get the cash together for the chucks that I want. It is quite a booger trying to drill the delrin with the drill press. I have wasted a great deal of delrin because the drilling was off. The centering of the delrin and getting a straight line through the length of it has caused a lot of head aches. So, I second marks comment about spending the money on a lathe.

[hazmat]

Just a few things that might make you think before you invest any money. Don't go with Tinsky or West for a kit. No offense to either of them because I get my "good wood" from Tinsky, it's just the cost at the outset for a kit from Pimo might be the way to go. I'd also invest the $18 in Pimo's book. It's not a hefty read but it has alot of good information the beginning pipe-maker should have on-hand. This was the route I went when I got into it and it has served me well.

For tools, my first purchases were a coping saw, extra blades, an affordable set of hand-files and sand-paper. This cost me all of $50 together and wasn't alot of money spent just to try something out. You can use the coping saw to cut and rough-shape and the files(and alot of elbow grease) to get where you ultimately want to be in the shaping process. Of course, the sand-paper is for finishing. I didn't even have buffs, compounds or wax for my first pipe.. I just used vegetable oil on the stummel and that was it. Didn't matter much, anyway.. it wasn't a showpiece, but a foot in the door to what has been one of the most enjoyable hobbies I've ever involved myself in.

After I did a few Pimo kit pipes and was on my way to enjoying it enough to justify the money, I purchased better tools, stains, etc.. etc. I guess what I'm trying to say is, to start off, you don't have to sink alot of money into the process. Wait until you're sure you enjoy it and then sink the money in... you'll find more satisfaction in that rather than having to have a garage sale to get rid of the lathes, saws and presses that collecting dust around your place. Another thing I learned by starting out the way I did is what it really takes to make these little guys. Shaping a pipe fully by hand, no tools that whir or spin or cut, taught me alot about the material we work with. Hope that gives you some help.

[LexKY_Pipe]

I started with PIMO kits. Got hooked. Bought a Jet mini-lathe and a Lowe tenon turning tool and I'm in business.

[becometheunknown]

I went both ways. I started with a couple of pimo kits and then I decided to buy 6 blocks of cheap algerian briar for $16 and a bunch of stems figuring if I screwed up all but one of the briar blocks it would have been a good investment. The briar was not very good, and a couple pieces had some major flaws but they gave me the option to experiement and take risks I definately wouldn't have tried on a 25$ pipe kit. I didn't have any tools, and I drilled the bowls and tenons with a hand drill (I bought pimos 3 rounded bits). It is very difficult to get the bowl and air hole perfectly in line, and matching the stem with the shank is also difficult if all you have to work with is a coping saw, dremel, and files, but I was able to make several good pipes for a very little cost. None of these came out as well as my first two kit pipes, but it was well worth the experience. You definately have to think more about the overall pipe and its parts when you start from scratch, but if you get your hands on cheap briar and just play around, you'll learn alot.

[SmokingArea]

I sarted with one of the kits from pipesandcigars, then a couple Pimos, and I just received three more kits from Tim West. I didn't crunch the numbers, but I'm not convinced Tim West's kits cost much more, but if they do, I'm willing to pay that, and then some. Tim West lets you choose exactly what stem you want, and he'll work with you on how you want it drilled, chamber size, etc - basically you're getting a custom made kit.

I plan on doing a LOT of kits before I begin investing in all the stuff to go from scratch. For me, it sounded a lot easier that what I'm realizing it is the more I look into it, so I'm happy to pay Tim $15 per kit (plust cost of block of course) to avoid a huge chunk of money outlay for tools until I'm satisisfied I know exactly what I want and how to use them.

When you learn to fly a plane, the instructor starts off letting you work the pedals while he does everything else, then builds on that. I'm looking at pipe making the same way. Getting the shaping and finishing down is plenty of challenge for me as a beginner without adding in making stems from scratch, etc.

Just my $0.02

-Eric