Applying Shellac--what am I doing wrong

[NvilleDave]

Can someone go over applying shellac again--I'm having limited success.

Problem 1--When I apply the shellac (Hock dewaxed flakes mixed with grain alcohol) it mingles with my stain (fiebings dye) and mottles the colors all up and/or it get's dye all over my trim rings.

Problem 2--I read where somebody (I think John C.) applies a thin coat to the whole pipe and then wipes off the excess with a cloth. My shellac becomes tacky so fast I end up with towel lint all over the pipe's finish that's a pain in the rear to get off.

Problem 3--it's really hard to get an even coat.

What are some of the methods you guys use to apply the shellac? How'd you guys overcome these problems?

Best,
Dave

[RadDavis]

Hi Dave,

If your shellac is getting tacky too quickly, it sounds like it's is not thinned enough. It is actually *supposed* to mix with your last coat of stain, and when you wipe it off, the stain is evened out perfectly. The shellac should be thin enough that you can put a coat on, pick up a rag and wipe it off, keeping the rag moving until the shellac is pretty much dry under it. When you wipe off the shellac, it should never feel sticky. It should feel wet, then dry, and never tacky in between. A tacky feel indicates too thick a cut of shellac and will leave areas on the pipe that have too much shellac.

I do the pipe in sections: Shank first with stem removed, and then the bowl. Sometimes, I do the bowl rim seperately. It just depends on the shape and size of the pipe. You just have to be careful around the trim rings.

Don't try to get an even coat. You're going to wipe it off anyway, and this evens it out. Just make sure you cover the entire pipe.

There's no hard and fast rule about how much of the pipe to do at once.

Hope this helps.

Rad

[NvilleDave]

Thanks Rad,
I'll try thinning it out some and see if that helps. What do you use to apply it? I've been using Q-tips but from what you wrote I'm guessing that's part of the problem since it takes so long to cover the pipe.

Best,
Dave

[RadDavis]

I use a doubled over extra fluffy pipe cleaner stuck in an old stem for a handle.

Rad

[ArtGuy]

I use one of the fiebling wool daubers to apply it. With that I can get the entire pipe covered in about 5 swipes or so, then I wipe it all off. I keep the dauber in a sealed mason jar so that it never dries. If it does you can simply soak it a bit in shellac and it will refresh. This way I do not have to clean it.

It sounds like your cut is too heavy. I take a 1 pound cut and thin that even further by mixeing 1 part shellac to 3 parts alcohol. I wipe it off with a cotton T-shirt. I let that sit 2 hours or over night before buffing. That may be longer than needed but I have gotten to where I just use that as a stopping point.

The shellac does not serve so much to give a shine but to protect the stain during buffing. It also helps give an even surface for the wax and thus an even shine all of ther the pipe. As Rad mentioned it also serves to even out the stain.

[NvilleDave]

Great information Rad and John! You guys are awesome--really appreciate how everyone here shares their knowledge and experience. I wouldn't be making pipes if it weren't for this board.

Dave

[jeff]

David,

I've had trouble with my shellac as well. In fact, I had stopped using it for a while until I decided to give it a shot again, but greatly cut by alcohol. Now, I've got it down pretty well.

I'll second Rad's method of using the pipe cleaner. It's quick, easy, and precise enough that you don't feel like you are slopping the stuff everywhere. Although, I must say that I am intrigued by John's method using the larger applicator so that the whole pipe may be coated at once instead of in stages.

Finally, you mentioned difficulty with your trim rings. That is a problem that is solved by order of assembly. When I'm using bamboo (without a vulcanite separator ring) or a trim ring I always completely finish the pipe including waxing and buffing before gluing the trim ring into place (I'm assuming that you are referring to a shank cap of boxwood or another similar wood). That will prevent the problem from occuring. If you are referring to another sort of trim ring, you might consider masking off that portion of the pipe when applying shellac.

Best of luck,

Jeff

[NvilleDave]

Finally, you mentioned difficulty with your trim rings. That is a problem that is solved by order of assembly. When I'm using bamboo (without a vulcanite separator ring) or a trim ring I always completely finish the pipe including waxing and buffing before gluing the trim ring into place (I'm assuming that you are referring to a shank cap of boxwood or another similar wood). That will prevent the problem from occuring. If you are referring to another sort of trim ring, you might consider masking off that portion of the pipe when applying shellac.

Best of luck,

Jeff

Jeff,
Changing the order of my assembly is exactly what I'm trying on my current pipe--thanks for that input because I wasn't sure if it would work out or not. I've already shellaced the stummel and I was giving it some time to rest before I apply the wax. After waxing it I'm putting on the trim ring. Thanks again.

Best to everyone,
Dave

[bscofield]

What about areas that come out much more dull than others after the shelac is applied (like the wood is more absorbent)?

[bluesmk]

Thanks everyone!
Especially Dave for asking. I have the flakes sitting out on the bench, and haven't got the nerve yet to try it....I feel like I'm stamping all over again, ooohhhh!
Dan
Gabrieli Pipes

[ArtGuy]

What about areas that come out much more dull than others after the shelac is applied (like the wood is more absorbent)?

If the coverage is spotty you can simply do another application (after the first has cured) and wipe it off. The second application will redisovle the first and it should smooth out.

[bvartist]

Hi,

I've had a problem with the pipes I make and am wondering if using shellac will solve it. Figured one of you guys with a lot more experience than me can give me an answer!

When I wax and buff my pipes they look great to start, but after smoking a couple bowls the finish tends to dull. A little more rapidly than I would expect. Would a coat of shellac under the wax solve this problem for me? Or am I running into a different problem?

David

[jeff]

Hi David,

What you are experiencing is typical for all smooth pipes that are finished properly. Rusticates and sandblasts are not always included because they may be finished using some more durable finish without risking a poor appearance. Smooth pipes may be finished with shellac and the wax, or wax alone. The shellac provides a smoother surface for the wax to polish, but does not provide a shine that lasts forever. Wax will always dull after handling and especially after smoking, whether you are smoking a Tinsky or a Nordh. Many collectors actually purchase buffing equipment to maintain the shine of each piece.

So, in short, you should not worry too much about the finish dulling. It happens with all good pipes.

Best,

Jeff

[bvartist]

Thanks Jeff,

After creating a few pipes for myself I am interested in selling a few. (have sold one and an order for another) Just wanted to make sure I wasn't running into problems with my finish. All a part of the learning curve for this craft!

Thanks
David

[josh_ford]

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what purpose the shellac serves? Is it necessary. I didn't include it on my first 2 pipes and they seemed to look okay. Please pardon my ignorance. It seems as though it adds a layer of protection over the stain, is that correct?

Josh

[hazmat]

Josh.. it's not necessary and there's different schools of thought on the shellac/no shellac issue. I guess it depends on what you, as the pipemaker, want to do. At this point, I've never used it, was always under the impression that it would seal up the pipe and not allow it to "breathe". After reading some stuff here, apparently that's not the case at all, it just adds a longer life to the overall luster, so far as I can tell. But you don't "need" it.

[KurtHuhn]

Some pipe smokers won't ever buy a pipe that they know has been finished with a shellac process. Some pipe smokers won't buy pipes that haven't.

Most (all?) high-grade pipe carvers employ the use of shellac or some other laquer as one of the steps in their finishing process. However, there's a very vocal subset of pipe smokers out there that are convinced that shellac is A Bad Thing and will eventually ruin a pipe's smoking quality.

On the other hand, there are a lot of pipes out there that are finished in a thick coat of some kind of lacquer, and these are usually cheap pipes with poor smoking qualities to begin with. That's probably where the concern came from.

[hazmat]

You know.. I have a Barling at home that I'm convninced is shellaced/lacquered, whichever.. it's NEVER lost a stitch of it's shine since the day I bought it while the stem has oxidized like a champion. I've had zero smoking problems with it past the break in period.

[josh_ford]

Thanks guys

Josh

[JSPipes]

I'm starting to play with this now and have done a rusticated pipe. It looks fantastic! However, it seems to be a pretty thick layer. It took several thin coats to bring it to a shine. So, before I send this one out, I thought I'd do one of my own. I layered it on thick. Not just a lot of thin coats, but a couple of really thick ones. I want to see if it will affect the smoking of the pipe. My thought is that it won't at all.

I'll report back later on after I smoke it. It'll probably be my after dinner bowl.

UPDATE: no affect on the way the pipe smokes at all. I filled it up again and all's well. I'm no longer concerned about it.

Joel