Handcut Polycarbonate Stems

Danskpibemager · Post by **Danskpibemager** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:02 am

Greetings everyone,
I think I asked this question previously and never received much feedback on the subject so I'll ask again. Has anyone tried handcut stems from black polycarbonate rod. I ordered 8 feet of ABS many months ago and I can't seem to work with this material very easily to get a decent stem. I have about 4 feet left so you can imagine my frustration in using up 4 feet to be deposited in the garbage can after each attempt. I can make a decent stem from acrylic although it's a pain in the butt to work with and pricewise at this time ebonite is out of reach. Polycarbonate appears to be a very suitable material for stems and I'm curious why there has not been more discussion or interest in this material. Am I missing something or is there a specific reason why it is not used? Any discussion would be welcome as I'm about to order 8 feet and give it a go! Thanks and see you all at the Chicago Pipe Show!

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:50 am

Acrylic/polycarbonate has its benefits, but those are sometimes outweighted by its drawbacks.

Pro:
- does not oxidize like ebonite/vulcanite
- easy to make shiny
- far less expensive than ebonite

Con:
- you need cast acrylic to even come close to the dimensional stability of ebonite
- drills like crap
- very susceptible to heat
- if you get extruded rod by mistake, you'll find strange extrusion artifacts when you heat the stem for bending
- some smokers find it uncomfortable

There are folks that use acrylic and have great luck with it. I've always found it to be a royal pain in the butt to work with, so I rarely use it.

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:21 pm

Perhaps you missed these posts:

viewtopic.php?t=2922

viewtopic.php?t=2945

ABS is slightly more difficult to work than acrylic & vulcanite/ebonite. I've managed to make two decent stems with it without messing up, the only stems I've made from scratch, so far, and I'm not an experienced pipe/stem maker.

I prefer the mouth feel of ABS over acrylic 1000%. If you want to ditch your ABS, I'd be quite willing to take it off your hands.

As Kurt said, if you get acrylic, get the cast not extruded. I've got 6' of useless extruded sitting around now.

pierredekat · Post by **pierredekat** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:22 pm

What exactly is the problem you're having with ABS? Maybe there is something we can help you with.

Danskpibemager · Post by **Danskpibemager** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:13 pm

Thanks for the input Kurt. Frank, I didn't miss those threads as I was one of the first to jump on the ABS bandwagon and kept track of the progress. Robert, the problem I'm having is after turning a tenon on the lathe and I start to file the flats, say for a saddle stem, the material tends to smear more so than come off as dust like with Ebonite or acrylic. The second problem is when I heat and bend the stem the airway collapses despite having either a pipe cleaner or wire stuffed down the center. The material is heated (Heat Gun) just to the point were it will bend and not beyond. I've tried rotary tools as well as different types of Nicholson files and the results are less than spectacular prior to bending and then of course the collapsed airway sends it to the junk bin. What do you guys use to work the flats on the stem? Thanks again in advance!

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:09 pm

For initial sanding of the flats I use a very coarse grit on my 2" width belt grinder/sander. This makes for fast stock removal without too much heat build up. After rough shaping I use a couple of less coarse grits, ending with about 120 grit belt. After that I use hand files & sandpaper in a series of finer grits.

Perhaps Robert has had similar problems as you with collapsed airways on bending, but the bent stem I made for my personal smoker seems to draw just fine. I also use a heat gun for bending. The only suggestion I can make in this area is to perhaps try using an extra fluffy pipe cleaner.

Admittedly, this stuff requires more work than ebonite, which might be discouraging to many pipemakers who might think the cost in time doesn't warrant the extra hassle.

Like yourself, my primary reason for using the stuff is the material cost factor. Refurbs don't warrant the cost & quality of ebonite. Mostly I use preforms for that, but I wanted to give ABS a try too.

My dislike of acrylic is mostly that "clackety-clack" of hard plastic on tooth.

pierredekat · Post by **pierredekat** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:50 pm

I do rough tapering on a 4x36 belt sander. Then I do rough button/bit shaping with a Dremel-type tool and a Dremel #115 bit. Then I fine-tune my lines with Nicholson files and 60-100 grit sandpaper wrapped around whatever I have laying around.

And I fine tune around the button with "point files" I buy from my local auto parts store and inside the airway with cheap needle files from Harbor Freight.

I usually bend my stems when I'm about 3/4 of the way towards the finished dimensions, and that allows me some wiggle room to true-up my lines after the bend.

And that might be why I haven't had any trouble with airways collapsing: because my stems aren't at their absolute thinnest dimensions when I do the bend.

For heat, I hold the stem about 1/2 inch above an electric stove burner set at about "4" on the dial until the stem starts to sag a little bit. Then I bend it over my thumbs, re-bend it if necessary, and finally quench it in cool water when I have the stem the way I want it.

After bending and final shaping, I work my way up the grades of sandpaper and buff.

JHowell · Post by **JHowell** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:12 pm

The acrylic rod from Delvies is pretty good, for acrylic. I do occasional stems from acrylic (don't know if that's what you mean by polycarbonate or not) and believe that in those cases the benefit of expanding the color palette outweighs the difficulty in working it. Obviously everyone has to draw his own line, but there is no practical reason why you can't cut a stem from black acrylic rod. It is not impossible, merely tiresome.

marks · Post by **marks** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:33 pm

Like Jack said, the cast acrylic from Delvies is excellent. I have been using their rods for several years, and have had excellent results with it. It's what I use when I make a pipe for myself, or if I want to get some different colors for pipes I sell.

It is much more difficult to drill (you must go slow) and it is much more difficult to shape. Ebonite takes a fraction of the time to make a stem from.

Danskpibemager · Post by **Danskpibemager** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:24 pm

Thanks for all the input guys, I really appreciate the time and generosity you've all taken in sharing your knowledge! There's no other place on earth to find this kind of information for free.

I have a 1" belt sander that I will try again with different grits to hopefully acheive betters results. I will definately try bending the stem at 3/4 the thickness of the final stem (.160")

I agree that Delvies acrylic rods are very good quality and have been using them for quite awhile but I was looking for another material that was less brittle and easier to work with to cut down on the time it takes to handcut a stem (More Time= Higher Pipe Cost). That's were the polycarbonate idea came into play which is actually black Lexan. I've worked with the sheet material and smaller rods and it is way less brittle and turns like ABS. The specs are very similar to ABS so I may just give it a try and report back on the progress.