Facing the stummel with a wood lathe

[Anvil]

Hey guys. I appreciate all the expertise represented by this forum and I have learned a lot just from browsing (ok, voraciously devouring) all the topics here.

In all the reading I have done, I have noticed a friendly little dispute about lathes. Some people like using a wood lathe and others a metal lathe. Not having much equipment so far (all of my pipes have been made with a drill press and a dremmel tool) a lathe seems like a decent investment. Obviously a wood lathe is a little less expensive while the metal lathe gives you better control.

But a question that I have that might sway me one way or the other is this: How do you face off the shank on your stummel using a wood lathe and know that it is flat? You are doing the entire thing by hand with no mechanical help in directing your cut. If I could get a good idea how this is accomplished, I might be able to convince the great keeper of the pocketbook (my wife) to invest a small amount of capital in a lathe for my shop.

[KurtHuhn]

Most of us that use a wood lathe face the shank with a Forstner bit. My preference is for a precision ground Freud at 1.25". Some folks prefer an aircraft counterbore, which faces the shank and drills the mortis at the same time. Either way, the results are the same.

You can also face the shank with a cutoff tool, but this requires practice and a steady hand. This is how I tend to face shank extensions and decorative rings.

[pierredekat]

Ditto what Kurt said. I use a Forstner bit, drilling at the same time/angle as the mortise. This can be done on the lathe, but it can also be done on the drill press, too.

You can also do it with a skew chisel on the lathe, but as Kurt mentioned, this type of operation requires just a little bit of care. Generally you want to check the face with either a straightedge or the corresponding stem or shank to make sure that it's not cupped or bulged.

[Anvil]

So I see how that would work. Then you can drill the air hole while the wood is still chucked up so your hole is perpendicular to the faced area.

Do you then give your stem material the same treatment? Chuck it up, face it and drill it? I'm trying to see how little equipment I can get away with and still come out with a decent product.

[KurtHuhn]

I have:
- wood lathe
- belt grinder
- bandsaw
- drill press
- dremel with flexible handpiece
- homebrew french wheel

That, along with abrasives, drill bits, files, and lathe chisels, is what I use to make pipes. Even that isn't as minimalist as you could go. Technically, you don't even *need* a wood lathe if you have a really good drill press. And French wheels are really only used when you're interested in speedy sanding.

For a long time I used only a drill press, belt grinder, and a dremel.

[smokindawg]

I'm just starting out and did obtain a nice Delta Midi lathe. Not been sorry that I got it as it's a nice wood lathe that can be set up to do most of the pipe making operations.

That said, for the investment it's a good one. But you need to remember and think about this. The lathe, be it wood or metal is the first part. After getting the lathe, it doesn't take long to get lots more money invested in the tooling for the lathe (and the operations you wish to accomplish with the lathe) than the lathe itself cost.

So beware, a lathe is a good tool but can quickly become a costly tool.

[Frank]

After getting the lathe, it doesn't take long to get lots more money invested in the tooling for the lathe (and the operations you wish to accomplish with the lathe) than the lathe itself cost.

So beware, a lathe is a good tool but can quickly become a costly tool.

Jeez, don't I know it. I still have accessories I bought for mine yonks ago that have never been used. It's really easy to get carried away with a new toy like that.

[Anvil]

I don't know if this will be more cost effective for accessories or not but pierredekat listed several make your own lathe links in another posting somewhere and I am going to give it a go. I think it will be a worthy project in itself and I should come out with a machine that will be capable of making some nice pipes. Granted this is all dependant upon my skill as a metal worker which, at this point, is all rather theoretical. The benefit to this method is that it defenitely keeps costs to a minimun since you melt down scrap metal and mold all your own parts.

[KurtHuhn]

The only thought I can offer for that course of action is that the above course of action is a slippery slope in and of itself. Building a melting furnace is the start of it too. Before you know it, you'll be looking at building electric furnaces so that you don't run out of propane halfway through a melt, then you'll want a bigger furnace so that you can cast more than just a flywheel or drive wheel. It's not too long from there before you're haunting the junkyards looking for scraps of aluminum, and are caught out back looking like Chad Houseknecht by your wife.

But, if you can pull it off, and avoid the pitfalls, it will be a worthy project. Don't expect to save too much money though. I'd wager real dollars that it will end up costing significantly more to build a lathe than buy one. The first knife I made ended up costing me about $250 just for materials, supplies, tools, and screwups.

[JHowell]

True, you can make your own lathe -- I used to have the Lindsay Publications book on the Gingery lathe. But what you wind up with is rather less functional and versatile than the clapped-out Logan 200 you can probably find for $3-400 if you keep your eyes open. It's an approach, in my opinion, better suited for a society-for-creative-anachronisms type than for actually making things. True, if you were a gunsmith in colonial times you would have had to make a lathe like the Gingery one. And power it by water or apprentice, or by pedaling it yourself. But today, the cost of operable or rebuildable machines makes building your own lathe from scratch something you should do because it turns you on rather than to save money.

[Frank]

It's an approach, in my opinion, better suited for a society-for-creative-anachronisms type than for actually making things.

Egad! Somebody else who's heard of the Sword Carrying Arseholes (SCA).

[android]

Generally you want to check the face with either a straightedge or the corresponding stem or shank to make sure that it's not cupped or bulged.

i was totally stumped as to why my stem/shank wasn't lining up, but that's exactly why. i guess i need to get a decent forstner for this operation.

[KurtHuhn]

Yeah, don't cheap out. I use the Freud "Precision Ground" series. There's no cupping or bulging, and significantly less chance of grinding aberrations that leave rings needing to be sanded off later.

[Catch]

Ok now I need to know. I can understand why its a bad thing for either the stem or shank to be bulged, as this would create a gap between the two, but does it really matter if they are slightly cupped? I would think this would make it a bit easier to make sure you get a nice fit.

[RadDavis]

Slightly cupped runs the risk of having gaps if you don't sand evenly around the shank and stem.

If you make an oval shanked pipe, you'll see the stem touching on the outside edges of the oval with a light gap in the middle.

I have experience with this.

Perfectly flat is what you want.

Rad

[caskwith]

I know its been mentioned here before, but make sure you get a good quality forstner bit. I thought mine was good quality until i tried a face a shank with it, and it was cupped badly! Its not to bad if you have a metal lathe, as i use the forstner to round out the shank and remove excess material quickly, the i use a lathe tool to true up the face, trying to remove lots of material with just the lathe tool is time consuming and blunts your tools, a forstner is much quicker. If you have a wood lathe though, as Kurt says, make sure its a really good quality bit, and test it out on some scrap peices before you try it out on briar, ive made that mistake aswell LOL

[Catch]

Slightly cupped runs the risk of having gaps if you don't sand evenly around the shank and stem.

If you make an oval shanked pipe, you'll see the stem touching on the outside edges of the oval with a light gap in the middle.

I have experience with this.

Perfectly flat is what you want.

Rad

I had not thought of this. I have only been working with preformed round stems and it seemed the easiest way to get things to line up. Good thing this forum is here to keep me straightened out.

[kbadkar]

There have been situations where I've had to face using the wood lathe and a chisel. One that comes to mind is when I drilled the mortise and forgot to use the forstner first. Don't try to face with a forstner after it's been drilled, I've learned. Anyway, if you find yourself in this situation and you have to chuck the shank on a pin gauge or the stem on a tapered drill bit, the best route you have is to slightly cup the face, and once shaping is nearly done, then use the old sandpaper on a flat surface trick. You can use the pin gauge on the shank and the tenon on the stem as your perpendicular guide. Or sandwich a drill bit index (or other flat thin backing) with sandpaper between the stem and shank and twist to remove the high points (such as the wide ends on an oval). It's much easier to remove the high points of a cup than the fat center on a bulge. Of course, shoot for flat, but err on the side of cupped.