Okay, someone help me before I screw this up!!!

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Sasquatch
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Okay, someone help me before I screw this up!!!

Post by Sasquatch »

I have an exceedingly nice piece of briar cut as a horn - been really lucky that the defects were outside the shape, as it were, and I've been left with a fairly large horn, with wicked grain on the sides and just crazy birdseye top and bottom. I would like to maximize the effect of the bottom birdseye, so I was thinking an unconventional, eye-catching shape might be good.

Image

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I was thinking that running a couple of ridges, on either "front corner", right down to the heel, would give it kind of a cool shape, and also allow the pipe to balance on the heel and be a sitter of a sort. You can see a rough idea of that sketched on to the top of the pipe.

So? What does a guy do here? I've got an absolutely phenomenal piece of wood and I'd like a really mind boggling pipe out of it, but of course, there's this issue about not really knowing wtf I'm doing!
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KurtHuhn
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Post by KurtHuhn »

First thing I would do, is ditch the pre-mold stem. It's going to artificially limit your ability to bring out the grain and work with what the wood has made available.

I don't know that I would do "ears" as you have there. Instead, it could be subtly concave with the sides becoming straight to intersect. Imagine a stylized "D".
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Sasquatch
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Post by Sasquatch »

I've got a chunk of lucite so I can do whatever with the stem - that one was an abandoned stem that happened to fit the mortise. I find it difficult to do rough shaping freehand without some kind of stem in place.
I am thinking the stem should be shorter be maybe an inch, as a starter.

The owl-head shape looks silly, to be sure, and as soon as I drew it, I didn't like it much, which is why I posted. I'm afraid of leaving that bottom side flat for some reason - worried that it will look like I just didn't know what to do, ya know? I probably should leave it mostly alone though - the current section is showing absolutely no flaws, and I'd sure be pissed if I file something down as a "good idea" and reveal some ugly pit or something. :)
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souljer
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Post by souljer »

Hi,

That does seem like a promising piece.

I would agree with Kurt that the existing stem is not the way to go. Shaping a larger bit to the shape of the shank is far better than reducing the shank to a small round bit. You want to save as much of the shank as possible to balance the large, wide bowl. I disagree with you that the stem in place is too long. I would consider adding a horn or wood shank extension or band on the bit, whatever is easier for you, to help elongate the shape. It depends how tall the bowl is, but I can see how it might be a long graceful pipe.

Lay the block as it is on a piece of paper and draw some bit suggestions at the shank's end. then you can get a little better idea of how all the parts will work together. Draw several versions including one or two that you know are too long or too short, just as points of reference. When those extremes are clear you will know more and will not simply be guessing what is correct.

The "Owl Head" design does not seem to work with the grain which is what you are happy with so I would not do that. Look at the direction the grain is going at the top of the bowl. It seems to be fanning out. Perpendicular to that grain direction is where you may find birds-eye. However the owl design is not cutting the wood and grain in a perpendicular way. I also think the sides of the "head" come in too close to the bowl and I would suggest you try to keep as much of the chamber wall as possible. Especially where it may already be getting thin down at the heel.

I would strongly suggest taking a look at other horn shapes before you continue, as points of reference and a few new ideas that may give you some inspiration.

For example:
http://www.scandpipes.com/pipes/uniDBfi ... 265&ID=735
www.TotemStar.com - Some of my pipe related art
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Post by Sasquatch »

Thanks for the link and the ideas, Souljer. If I was to do a "totally grain sensitive" pipe, the back and front would be flat, and the sides would get wider towards the front of the pipe. The grain is very uniform and looks impressive with no stain or even sanding, so I'm hoping for a real killer.

The pipe in the link is gorgeous and yet simple enough in shape that I could actually attempt it.

As to the stem - the last horn I did as a "smoking" pipe and left the stem longer than it should have been for pure aesthetics, but it was extremely well balanced in the teeth. This new pipe I'm thinking is going to be more of a showpiece than a smoker for most guys who would buy it, so I would like to nail the proportions. The thing is a bit long and skinny (I maybe cut a bit too much from the sides) and I don't want it to be overy that way, but long and graceful I can live with. I will draw some out and see what looks good. Possibly seeing the shape with a slightly bent stem will also change things in my mind.

Appreciate the guidance.

PS are you guys thinking to bend the stem up or down? With the stem currently in there, I was thinking to bend it down, but I notice on the Nordh horn the whole thing is just one continuous curve.... can't imagine clenching it!
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Post by staffwalker »

That upward bend stuff I can't become a fan of, regardless of what Bo N did. All the horns I have done, except one which was straight with no bend, have had a slight downward bend to the stem. I sold the straight one at the Chicago show, the guy who bought it was a known crafter who you would recognize if I mentioned his name, said the only thing he would have done different was to do a slight downwards bend of the stem. I told him I would be glad to bend it on the spot with my Bic lighter but he said no, he would smoke it as I had created it and then bend the stem if he didn't like it straight.

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souljer
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Post by souljer »

Hi,

There are a few things you wrote that I do not agree with or do not understand, but first, you're welcome for the link however keep looking at other examples. I did not mean to suggest that particular shape. It's simply one of many examples. The more you see and think about to understand why they work, the better you will understand what to do with yours.
Sasquatch wrote:If I was to do a "totally grain sensitive" pipe, the back and front would be flat, and the sides would get wider towards the front of the pipe.
Both your points are probably not correct at the same time.
Usually birds-eye grain is perpendicular to straight grain.
Review what you wrote and think about this statement.

The easy visual is to simply lay your open hand on the table with your fingers fanned open like the grain. All four fingers are pointing in a different direction. Flat across the front may be perpendicular to your middle fingers but straight across is not perpendicular to your first and last fingers.

A curve is actually what you want. Bo Nordh also did not make a perpendicular face, but he instead exaggerated the curve, bowing the front and back, but moving with the grain rather than contrary to it. That's being grain sensitive. And design sensitive, as this keeps the bowl wall thicker rather than thinner.
Sasquatch wrote: As to the stem - the last horn I did as a "smoking" pipe and left the stem longer than it should have been for pure aesthetics, but it was extremely well balanced in the teeth. This new pipe I'm thinking is going to be more of a showpiece than a smoker for most guys who would buy it, so I would like to nail the proportions.
Um, what?
First of all your first priority is making the pipe smoke good. Everything else is secondary.

If you want to make a "show piece" don't bother drilling it. Then you can show-off even more birds-eye on the top! DO NOT proceed thinking this is some kind of show piece. Simply make the best pipe you can. Someone may keep it in a cabinet, or someone may not think it's all that, and smoke your precious while mowing the lawn. So it's best to not heap a bunch of baggage on it, that way it will not matter if someone sees it differently than you thought they should. You only need to agree, with whoever ends up with it, that it's a good smoker, not the best pipe in the world. You know it will do it's job as a fine smoker and you did the best you can with the wood. Please do not think this is the best pipe you will ever make. Next year you'll be looking back and still learning from mistakes made on this "show piece".

You seem to be doubling back on yourself here and proving yourself both wrong and right.
The last pipe was longer than it should have been but was well balanced. If it was well balanced and smoked good, then it was correct.

This one you want to get the proportions correct.

Okay, you mean like the last one? :D
Sasquatch wrote: The thing is a bit long and skinny (I maybe cut a bit too much from the sides) and I don't want it to be overy that way, but long and graceful I can live with. I will draw some out and see what looks good. Possibly seeing the shape with a slightly bent stem will also change things in my mind.

Appreciate the guidance.

PS are you guys thinking to bend the stem up or down? With the stem currently in there, I was thinking to bend it down, but I notice on the Nordh horn the whole thing is just one continuous curve.... can't imagine clenching it!

The Bo Nordh example probably hangs from your mouth correctly and comfortably. It's only a few degrees past straight, after all. As I said, look at more examples to see how others have done it.

Personally I would also give it a gentle and graceful bend, so that in profile the whole pipe will form a kind of flattened "lazy S".

Hope that helps.
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Sasquatch
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Post by Sasquatch »

The "lazy S" is certainly my preference for shape, and that's the direction I think I'll move in.

As to the grain what I meant by "totally grain sensitive" is that ideally you could cut this piece of briar so that it has straight grain on the sides and birdseye front and back. But the best way to show this would be almost flat panels on all sides, and that's not a look I like much. The Nordh pipe is a nice balance - very grain sensitive, but it doesn't look forced and the shape is still something that I would like to hold. It also is a shape that isn't incredibly ornate, so I stand a chance of doing something like that fairly successfully.

I do all my pipes to the best of my ability. This particular piece deserves special treatment - it would be easy to NOT get the best out of it, and I don't wanna do that!

Thanks for the tips!
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Post by Sasquatch »

Here's a pic of the "too long" horn.

Image

I think from a purely aesthetic point of view, the stem should be around 1/2" shorter, ending nearer the curve. But I wanted the pipe to be a sort of masculine, outdoorsy, very smokeable pipe, so I left the stem longer and the pipe can be comfortably tucked in the back teeth while you are splitting wood or fighting a bear or whatever.

So I don't think it's contradictory, but rather we face a choice between aesthetic ideals and functional ideals, and sometimes we can't have perfection in both and a compromise has to be made. Like you, Souljer, my primary aim is to make an awesome smoking pipe, so I will compromise toward the functional if I have to.
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Post by Kettletrigger »

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Any pipe that's just a smidge too long in the stem should be know as a "Bear Fighter"...I really hope you coined one there. ;)
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