Recommendation: Next tool?

[DanH]

Hello Gentlemen,

Over the past year, I've been slowly acquiring tools for pipemaking. First a dremel, then a bandsaw, then a buffer, then a grinder which I'm going to convert into a disc sander. With each new tool, the job gets a little easier. And with each pipe, I get a little bit better (still have a loooong way to go, though).

Up to this point, I've been working with kit pipes, but I'm hoping to take the next step and start making my own stems and doing my own drilling.

With all that in mind, what's the next tool I should be thinking about acquiring?

I've been looking at the Grizzly 7"x12" mini-lathe. http://grizzly.com/products/7-x-12-Mini ... athe/G8688.

Will I be able to turn tennons on this as well as drill the chamber, draught and mortise? Or do I need separate machines for all these functions?

Any help and guidance appreciated.

Thanks!

Dan

[KurtHuhn]

That particular lathe will make you want to stab things.

It's a really crap piece of machinery, and is just about impossible to keep in working order. You can make it acceptable, if you're prepared to dump an additional $500-$600 into it, but at that point, you really should have bought a Jet BD920 or something. If you could that Grizzly lathe for free, I would say "go for it, what could happen", but actually forking over money for it is about the last thing I would suggest to anyone.

If you really want a small lathe inexpensively, I strongly suggest either a Taig or Sherline:
http://www.taigtools.com/mlathe.html
http://www.sherline.com/lathes.htm

Other than that, keep an eye out for older "big iron" like the South Bend 9" or 10".

[Frank]

Will I be able to turn tennons on this as well as drill the chamber, draught and mortise? Or do I need separate machines for all these functions?

Following Kurt's advice is probably the best thing to do, but a point worth mentioning is that the lathe you listed is likely too small for stummels.

[DanH]

That particular lathe will make you want to stab things.

Thanks for the heads up Kurt! This is just the kind of invaluable information I seek when I post a question. I had kind of assumed it would be pretty OK based on their general reputation, and the fact that the bandsaw I got from them is great for the price. But as they say, "when you assume..."

So, if infer correctly from the responses, then it IS possible to use the same machine to turn the rod stock and do the briar drilling... just not THAT particular machine?

[KurtHuhn]

If you want to use a lathe for drilling pipes, not just working with rod stock, you will need at least 9" of swing. This is where the Jet BD920 and the South Bend 9" and 10" lathes work well - assuming you want one lathe.

Now, long time members of the forum know that I only recently got a metal lathe, and used a single wood lathe for all my stem and block work for several years. You can totally go that route if you so choose, you just need to modify your workflow around the wood lathe instead of a metal lathe. In that case, the Jet JML1014 is probably the entry point, or the Delta Midi.

[DanH]

Hi Kurt,

Well, part of the reason I'm asking is I'm trying to avoid two machines if possible. At least for the time being. I have a very limited amount of space to work with right now. Basically a small part of a one and a half car garage, which comes out to maybe an eight by twelve workspace. I know it doesn't seem like much, but it's a heck of a lot better than the back porch of my old apartment, so I'm not going to go complaining just yet.

So I guess the advice sought is more along the lines of: if you only had a small amount of space to work with, what machine (or two small machines) would you buy given goals and the circumstances?

On a side note: Kurt! Tennons on a wood lathe? I bow humbly to your superior steadiness of hand!

[RadDavis]

I use a Jet 9 x 20. I turn both stummels and stems on it. It takes about 15 seconds to change chucks.

Rad

[kbadkar]

On a side note: Kurt! Tennons on a wood lathe? I bow humbly to your superior steadiness of hand!

Tenons on a wood lathe are a piece of cake... if you use delrin.

There is the $50 Pimo tenon turning tool that can be used on a wood lathe for integral vulcanite tenons. JH Lowe sells a fancy one for around $400.

[KurtHuhn]

On a side note: Kurt! Tennons on a wood lathe? I bow humbly to your superior steadiness of hand!

Practice. Lots of it. I ruined a lot of material before I finally was able to consistently cut a tenon on the wood lathe. That said, I almost never did - delrin is a superior tenon arrangement if you're using a wood lathe. It's easy:
- face the stem end with a forstner bit
- drill a mortis
- drill the airway
- drill your delrin tenon
- groove the delrin tenon
- coat the delrin and mortis with epoxy
- press the delrin in
- it took longer to type this than it takes me to do it

Even though I now own a metal lathe, I still use delrin tenons in a lot of pipes. Old habits die hard. And I love the fitment provided by delrin.

[DanH]

Thanks for the recommendation, Rad! Just looked up the Jet BD920. Now, that is a beautiful machine!!! But it looks like if I go the route of metal lathe, I need to start saving my pennies now. I'd rather buy a good one the first time. Learned my lesson about that. Always better to just save up and get the good tool. Otherwise, you buy a cheap tool... it breaks. You buy another... it breaks. Then you give up and get the good tool in the end anyway, so it ends up costing more money.

I hadn't considered delrin as a tennon option, though. That would make a wood lathe a possiblility for a single machine solution that could get me through the next five years or so. And from the looks of it, possibly a cheaper solution, too.

So, a few more questions regarding wood lathes:
In the area of wood lathes, what's a good one? And what size would I need? Would something like the Jet 10x14 be sufficient, or would I regret not getting the 12x20?

[KurtHuhn]

So, a few more questions regarding wood lathes:
In the area of wood lathes, what's a good one? And what size would I need? Would something like the Jet 10x14 be sufficient, or would I regret not getting the 12x20?

A 10x14, either Jet or Delta, is sufficient for pipe making. A 12x20 would be nice, but not strictly necessary. It's only now that I've had my Jet 10x14 for several years, that I've considered upgrading to a 16x24 Nova lathe - but not for any reasons related to pipe making, mostly for other woodturning projects.

[SimeonTurner]

I have no trouble with my 10x14 lathe; my only wish is that I had bought a variable speed lathe so that changing rpms would be easier. This of course only really matters when I'm drilling the mortise and airway and chamber...I like to drill the mortise and airway at a nice slow RPM to avoid grain tear out, but it would be nice to make a quick change to the speed for the chamber. *shrug* This is really more of a luxury wish than a necessity.

A couple of things to consider as you look at a new lathe:

1) I thought that a lathe would make all of my tenon turning issues go away...and it can. However, as you gain experience (quickly) you will find that a tool such as a tenon turner becomes more and more desirable. I finally caved in and picked up JH Lowe's tenon turner, and I am really happy with it. i use it with my lathe, and it has made the tenon cutting process a 10 second one instead of a 30 minute one where I would make tiny adjustments to the tenon diameter by hand with a skew chisel.

2) The cost of the lathe is minor compared to the cost of all the other accessories you will need/want in short order. Within 6 months of buying my lathe, I had invested probably 4 times the cost of the lathe itself in several different chucks, turning tools, etc. The lathe itself is worthless unless you buy nice turning tools, and those can be spendy.

I can't imagine how I ever got by making pipes before I went to my lathe (I even have seen the light and drill on the lathe now, which I swore I would never do...LOL). It's definitely worth it, but be prepared to get sucked into the whirling vortex of money draining that comes along with it. All the money I've spent has been *mostly* guilt free, but it definitely was not just a couple of hundred bucks and done.

[DanH]

The cost of the lathe is minor compared to the cost of all the other accessories you will need/want in short order.

Yeah. That's kinda what I figured. A good two jaw chuck, which seems like an absolute necessity, is a pretty hefty investment all by itself. The accompanying accessory acquisition may explain why the the more affordable wood lathe option is looking better and better to me at this point. Also, going with delrin tennons sounds mighty appealing as it would eliminate the need for the tennon turning tool (as well as the extender piece necessary to make longer tennons for stem inserts).