Proper blade and tooth profile for briar

[bikedoctor]

I thought I would practice carving some stummels out of cherry wood and had considerable difficulty squaring the blocks. I was trying to use my shop smith but kept getting unlevel cuts.
Assuming the blade was dull I moved to the chop saw thinking the carbine blade would do better ... heck, it cost $30 and the teeth are closer together. No dice. The wood kept burning.
So I moved over to the band saw and no matter how slow I moved the block or how close I had the guard the blade was still walking.
So I need to do some shopping for some new blades. What is the pitch or tooth profile I'm looking for in a table saw blade for my shop smith and my band saw. The chop saw was just out of desperartion and will stay set up for 2x4's and molding. So no worries on that one.

[ToddJohnson]

If you're trying to square the blocks, just use a combination belt/disc sander with a 90 degree table. You may get where you're trying to go with a table saw or (very much more dangerously) with a chop saw, but neither are really a very god way to go.

TJ

[Danskpibemager]

My first question would be what type of Cherry are you using? If its American Cherry it sounds like it may not be dried out enough and your blades are burning. If its Brazilian Cherry good luck. I ruined a number of blades and rotary tools trying to carve this type of wood. It's like trying to cut granite with a butter knife. My advice would be to try some air or kiln dried American Cherry. Good luck!

Kevin

[Sasquatch]

I cut my blocks on a table saw and chop saw. That allows me to get exact angles on my blocks - if I want 5 degree cant on a bowl, I just set the shop saw. You could do the same with a sanding table (a la Todd J), but I don't have a big enough one. With sharp blades and good technique it's reasonably safe and the results are incomparable. The blade of choice on both 10" tools is an LU-82 from Freud, available from Home Depot for 50 bucks where I live. Full kerf blade, the pitch is 10 degrees, the tooth style is Triple Chip, with one basically square tooth followed by a tooth bevelled on both shoulders. This is a great blade for most applications, the sole exception being ripping hardwood, which it really isn't very good at. But for cutting briar it's very good indeed.

That said, I'm a professional finishing carpenter, and I probably am a helluva lot better at handling small pieces of extremely hard wood than the average Joe, so take my advice as just that: the advice of a guy who uses these tools all day and has all kinds of slick techniques for doing shit I shouldn't do. Todd's method is definitely more finger friendly.

[KurtHuhn]

I do a lot with my bandsaw - though not too much for pipemaking. It's a crappy $99 Delta that routinely tries to kill me, but I have found that the blades supposedly sold for cutting metal (which ain't gonna happen at those blade speeds) are the best for hard woods like briar, maple, cherry, etc. The teeth are very small, very close together, and the blade is 3/8 wide.

A lot of bandsaws come with skip or hook tooth blades, and a lot are only 1/4" wide. The problem with these is that they're EXTREMELY flexible, tend to wander all over the place, and dull quickly. If you take a step up to 18 or 24 TPI blade in 3/8" width (at a minimum), with standard or "v" teeth, you may find that you end up with more control and less wander. And if you don't attempt to cut metal or glass-based phenolics with it, it should last a long time. Ask me how I know.

[ToddJohnson]

And if you don't attempt to cut metal or glass-based phenolics with it, it should last a long time. Ask me how I know.

And another bit of advice from the Stupid Pipemaker Files: Neither should you use your band saw to cut off a big chunk of tripoli to keep by your lathe for polishing stems. If you do, you'll basically be burnishing your way through anything else you try to "cut" until you change blades.

TJ

[baweaverpipes]

And another bit of advice from the Stupid Pipemaker Files: Neither should you use your band saw to cut off a big chunk of tripoli to keep by your lathe for polishing stems. If you do, you'll basically be burnishing your way through anything else you try to "cut" until you change blades.

TJ

Only an ignoramus skink would do something like that

[Frank]

If you don't have, or can't afford a disc sander with table, this works great on a drill press or mill with cross-slide table for getting parallel sides: Wagner Safe-T-Planer

If you shop around you can get it for quite a bit less. I think I paid around 35 bucks.

[SimeonTurner]

And if you don't attempt to cut metal or glass-based phenolics with it, it should last a long time. Ask me how I know.

And another bit of advice from the Stupid Pipemaker Files: Neither should you use your band saw to cut off a big chunk of tripoli to keep by your lathe for polishing stems. If you do, you'll basically be burnishing your way through anything else you try to "cut" until you change blades.

TJ

lol! I did something similar with a metal dowel. Turns out that trying to cut wood with a bandsaw blade that has no teeth left is pretty much like trying cut rub your way through the wood with a butterknife. Heh...

[bikedoctor]

Kurt. So after a good spanking by the American Black Cherry wood I drowned my pain with this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6wfhIWIQ78&feature=fvw

Doesn't seem real after my first bout with hardwood.

[bikedoctor]

The blade of choice on both 10" tools is an LU-82 from Freud, available from Home Depot for 50 bucks where I live. Full kerf blade, the pitch is 10 degrees, the tooth style is Triple Chip, with one basically square tooth followed by a tooth bevelled on both shoulders. This is a great blade for most applications, the sole exception being ripping hardwood, which it really isn't very good at. But for cutting briar it's very good indeed.

Your knowledge is bigger than my knowledge. Thank you.
After 30minutes on the cherry wood my father in law came in to do a quick finger count on me and when he saw carnage he asked what I was going to do. "I'm going to the forums. They'll know what to do."
I was right.

[Sasquatch]

It's not the size of your knowledge, it's what you do with it!

[RadDavis]

And another bit of advice from the Stupid Pipemaker Files: Neither should you use your band saw to cut off a big chunk of tripoli to keep by your lathe for polishing stems. If you do, you'll basically be burnishing your way through anything else you try to "cut" until you change blades.

TJ

I know a pipe maker from Colorado who, when he first got his lathe, turned it on to drill a smoke hole, and found it extremely difficult. Really had to force that sucker hard to get it to drill at all, but he finally got it done.

He didn't know that lathes would run in reverse.

Rad

[bikedoctor]

And another bit of advice from the Stupid Pipemaker Files: Neither should you use your band saw to cut off a big chunk of tripoli to keep by your lathe for polishing stems. If you do, you'll basically be burnishing your way through anything else you try to "cut" until you change blades.

TJ

I know a pipe maker from Colorado who, when he first got his lathe, turned it on to drill a smoke hole, and found it extremely difficult. Really had to force that sucker hard to get it to drill at all, but he finally got it done.

He didn't know that lathes would run in reverse.

Rad

Tell me it wasn't Will P.

[bikedoctor]

It's not the size of your knowledge, it's what you do with it!

I know. I'm still screwed. But hey look what I found...
http://cgi.ebay.com/FREUD-10-in-60T-CAB ... 286.c0.m14

[TRS]

and I probably am a helluva lot better at handling small pieces of extremely hard wood than the average Joe

I use a chop saw too; until I get my lazy ass to the store and buy some discs for my sander anyways....

[Sasquatch]

Bike, that blade'd do you.

Really, most good quality blades will do the job. I've used Forrest, FS2, etc, the really expensive ones, and they last well and cut well. Freud is sort of a "value" line in saw blades. Not the very best, but not super expensive either.

A fine finish blade will have the teeth actually angled backwards or set perpendicular to the edge, rather than leaning into the cut. I find that this makes them cut too slowly on something as thick and hard as briar. Most of the multi-purpose blades work well.

[KurtHuhn]

Kurt. So after a good spanking by the American Black Cherry wood I drowned my pain with this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6wfhIWIQ78&feature=fvw

Doesn't seem real after my first bout with hardwood.

Briar cuts a lot smoother and with a lot more control than other hardwoods - mostly due to its uniform texture. But, also not that he's using an industrial-sized bandsaw with what appears to be a 3/4" or 1" wide blade. He probably has nice roller guides for it too, by the looks of it.