Acetone and Ping Pong Balls

[ckr]

I tried Pentacryl but I should have read the bottle first as it is for green/wet wood and then I tried wood juice. I can't really say the wood juice did anything at all. Wood seemed the same after soaking as before. Having flushed a few bucks down the drain I moved on. Nitrocellulous Laquer, seems it is not sold but is easily made. Can't remember where I first came across this method but I dug into it a bit.

Can be made with ping pong balls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyK5cW_RvSY

It is flamable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZ0TYZRT ... re=related

So I tried it.

three balls to a half of baby food jar


I doubled it later


An pre-cut pieces like this the penetration is excellent but I did have to dip, evaporate, dip again. On the third dip almost no air bubbles rose from the wood.

This piece has also been dipped three times. Visually you probably can't see much difference but if you had done dipped and undipped on the lathe you would notice a significant difference. When turning it almost has a lubricated feel and the cuts are much cleaner.

I used to think dip it and leave it in for a week or two and that is possibly why I just didn't feel the wood juice was cutting it. With this (and probably the wood juice also) I get better results with dip/evaporate and repeat. I feel that the evaporation of the acetone leaves the wood impregnated with ping pong ball (PPB, big tech term there) and the repeats allow more laquer to enter the wood and each dip deposits more PPB into the wood.

Not as good as acrylic impregnated wood under vacuum but for cost and performance I consider this to be the best I have yet found.


Oh yeah, not that it is important but after the acetone evaporates the wood didn't blow up.

[e Markle]

Thanks for the info. I'm currently trying the acetone & acrylic, but I'm not convinced it's working as well as I'd like without the vacuum. I may need to go this route next time.

[Sasquatch]

Is this in theory better for stability than PEG (which if I understand it is also for green wood)?

[Mike Messer]

I'm not sure what you are doing, but I've been thinking of ways to waterproof mortises to make them more dimensionally stable. One idea I had was to use super glue, ethyl cyanoacrylate, which is waterproof, but I don't think it will penetrate the wood much,and it isn't very durable, kind of gummy. Shellac which seems too water sensitive, and also likely to become gummy.
I've only read a little about NitroCellulose..haven't tried any of it. Not the explosive version, less nitrate radicals, but still highly flammable. This is NitroCellulose, right? NitroCellulose is also alcohol soluble which might be better in some ways than acetone? And are those shank extensions you are dipping? For what, to waterproof? The residue in the wood when it dries is NitroCellulose and can be redissolved by alcohol, I think.

[e Markle]

And are those shank extensions you are dipping? For what, to waterproof? The residue in the wood when it dries is NitroCellulose and can be redissolved by alcohol, I think.

Personally, I was interested in stabilizing for durability and ease of working/turning. Not sure that waterproofing is a primary focus for these applications, but I have no idea.

[ToddJohnson]

And are those shank extensions you are dipping? For what, to waterproof? The residue in the wood when it dries is NitroCellulose and can be redissolved by alcohol, I think.

Personally, I was interested in stabilizing for durability and ease of working/turning. Not sure that waterproofing is a primary focus for these applications, but I have no idea.

It is only a primary focus for SCUBA pipes. The problem is that even with the waterproofing they're only good to a depth of about 200 feet. Then the pressure becomes too great. Hope this helps.

TJ

[Nick]

I hear that they used ping pong balls for this in Atlantis.

[tritrek]

....and I thought this was to somehow seal light coloured wood used for inserts, rings... so they won't take up the stain from the material next to them...

[KurtHuhn]

It's really to help make wood more dimensionally stable. A lot of very beautiful wood, like spalted maple, is also incredibly fragile due to the microorganisms that feed on the wood. If you stabilize it, it will hold together much better. An added bonus is that it will finish more like a plastic than a wood.

A lot of knife and pen makers in the U.S., unless they have their own pressure/vacuum pot setup, use WSSI. Their prices are very good, and the service is spectacular. You send them wood you want stabilized, and they send you that wood back all ready for use:
http://www.stabilizedwood.com/

[pennsyscot]

I'm not sure what you are doing, but I've been thinking of ways to waterproof mortises to make them more dimensionally stable

Why not just use a delrin mortise sleeve?

[kbadkar]

Who has problems with dimensionally unstable mortises? Sometimes the tenon is a bit tighter, sometimes a little looser, but where's the problem?

[Briarfox]

Very interesting Idea, thank you for sharing. Some of my inserts end up cracking and not finishing to well. This results in many inserts made before I get one right. I've heard of stabilizing the wood but had no idea how. Think I'll give this a try on some scrap and see how it goes.

[Mike Messer]

Who has problems with dimensionally unstable mortises? Sometimes the tenon is a bit tighter, sometimes a little looser, but where's the problem?

I was wondering where you were kbadkar. I have been missing your posts, lately.
With some of my pipes which I smoke heavily, including a Longchamp mfg. pipe, I have had problems with the mortise-tenon getting so tight it feels like the tip might break when removing it. It appears to be mostly from the wood swelling. The ends of the tenons on these pipes aren't fitted tight at the bottom of the mortise, allowing moisture to condense there, which is a big contributor to the problem, I think, so maybe it would not happen if the fit was better.
If the pipe is given a long rest, weeks perhaps, and with posible weather temp-humidity effects also, the mortise-tenon can get so loose the tip will just fall out if held vertical. I have also read on some pipe-smoker sites about others who have had this problem, so I have thought about stabilizing the wood with some kind of non-toxic waterproof resin, just in the area around the tenon, and out of the smoke path.

[Mike Messer]

And are those shank extensions you are dipping? For what, to waterproof? The residue in the wood when it dries is NitroCellulose and can be redissolved by alcohol, I think.

Personally, I was interested in stabilizing for durability and ease of working/turning. Not sure that waterproofing is a primary focus for these applications, but I have no idea.

It is only a primary focus for SCUBA pipes. The problem is that even with the waterproofing they're only good to a depth of about 200 feet. Then the pressure becomes too great. Hope this helps.

TJ

...and then there is the more explosive version of NitroCellulose which has many uses.
(just kidding, I repeat, only joking)

but seriously, see my post above with the kbadkar quote.

[kbadkar]

Who has problems with dimensionally unstable mortises? Sometimes the tenon is a bit tighter, sometimes a little looser, but where's the problem?

...so I have thought about stabilizing the wood with some kind of non-toxic waterproof resin, just in the area around the tenon, and out of the smoke path.

Try a little bee's wax.

I was wondering where you were kbadkar.

China, back and forth. 3-1/2 months there out of the past 6 months, and with a 3-1/2 month infant in LA.

[ckr]

For the reasons Kurt mentions, dimensional stability. This was spalted tamarind. I do not yet have a vacuum pot and have not worked with acrylic resin which I know would blow this stuff away. This stuff is cheap, real cheap ... but it does do a good job and better than what you pay for off the shelf. For me I think it is strictly for small pieces for inlays and SCUBA pipes. I have tried composite gem stone on a SCUBA Dublin but found the coloration was lost after 100 feet and the pipe was aesthetically unpleasing to fellow divers.

[Nick]

Bummer!

[Briarfox]

I've started using this stuff and it really seems to make a difference. However, mine is no longer white but a pinkish color. It sucked color right out of the walnut insert!