Polishing dark stained pipes

[Fairlight]

As I am still waiting for my buffer (1750rpm/4inch) and reading about the whole thing I seem to getting more questions. Here is one of them?

Suppose you want to polish a pipe that is coated with a deep thick finish, lets say a dunhill bruyere or a Ferndown Reo. I was reading the asp guide an the guide actually proposes sanding it from 1000 to 6000 and then diamond, waxing and buffing or even tripoli if you don't go until 6000. Is it just me or does that sounds too aggressive? I have a hunch that especially the coarser sandpapers will remove a large portion of the stain, altering the coloring significantly even with applying minimum pressure. I thought that even tripoli would be too aggressive for that, but it seems that I may be wrong. I am really confused, what would you do?

If we take a pipe with a lighter coating but still very distinct and visible, for example a comoy's blue ribband what of the above would change?

Sorry for all the questions, I am just starting out and it can get very confusing...

[Alan L]

That does sound a little extreme to me... Well, flat-out ignorant, actually. I see no reason to use sandpaper of any grit on a finished pipe stummel, especially an expensive one like those mentioned that isn't mine. The gnarliest pipes can be cleaned of most gunk by gentle and persistant polishing with a damp cloth. That will remove the layer of tar from the top of the bowl along with most other goo from elsewhere on the pipe. The original wax will need to be buffed out, which is what the white diamond or tripoli will do. Apply a fresh coat of wax and it should shine like a new one.

Note that tripoli on a finished pipe can sometimes make the grain stand out a bit. Not enough to feel, but enough to see.

Now then, to get the green fuzz off the bit may require sanding if it's that nasty deep velvety decomposed ebonite that feels like you've put the felt off a billiard table in your mouth. Perhaps that's what the ASP article was about?

[Fairlight]

That does sound a little extreme to me... Well, flat-out ignorant, actually. I see no reason to use sandpaper of any grit on a finished pipe stummel, especially an expensive one like those mentioned that isn't mine. The gnarliest pipes can be cleaned of most gunk by gentle and persistant polishing with a damp cloth. That will remove the layer of tar from the top of the bowl along with most other goo from elsewhere on the pipe. The original wax will need to be buffed out, which is what the white diamond or tripoli will do. Apply a fresh coat of wax and it should shine like a new one.

Yes all these will indeed remove gunk, wax remains, dust etc but what about tiny scratches in the briar that prevent it to shine (i thought polishing is all about abrading tiny scratches).

Now then, to get the green fuzz off the bit may require sanding if it's that nasty deep velvety decomposed ebonite that feels like you've put the felt off a billiard table in your mouth. Perhaps that's what the ASP article was about?

No he was crearly talking about stummels that is what is so suprising ! To quote the guide

There are two methods of using abrasives. For deeper scratches in the briar,
and for tooth-marks and extreme oxidation on the stem, one will start with an
abrasive film or paper with a 1000 grit size or finer and repeatedly abrade the - 11 -
surface with finer and finer grits of abrasives until the subsequent scratches
are so fine that they appear to be non-existent (making certain that the
scratches left by the preceding abrasive have been completely removed!). Once
a satisfactory surface has been obtained - or if the surface is already smooth -
one will use a compound applied to a cloth wheel spun by a motor, and
progress from coarser to finer abrasive compounds in small steps.

6.1.1. The most common mistake that I see, from both amateurs and those who
should know better, is to ignore this principle: to repeatedly abrade the
surface with finer and finer grits of abrasives, in small increments,
(making certain that the scratches left by the preceding abrasive have been
completely removed!) until the subsequent scratches are so fine that they
appear to be non-existent. I have repeated this many times over because it
is that important! In fact, one can usually improve almost any pipe costing
under $100 by meticulously sanding it with 1000 to 8,000 paper, then
buffing with Tripoli. Most pipes under $100 are sanded to 600 or so, then
polished with Tripoli because the price point doesn’t permit meticulous,
step-by-step hand sanding with finer and finer grits!

If he was talking about stems and oxidation even lower than 1000 grit would made sense, but finished stummels?

I guess for stummels finished like that the most conservative approach would be just diamond and the riskier one tripoli and then diamond right?

[Leus]

Ah, the ASP guide. Key words: "pinch of salt."

Sanding will remove stain. If you are restoring an expensive pipe then you shouldn't sand anything except the stem.

On the other hand, a basket pipe can look way better by sanding it naked (*), and then staining and polishing it again. I've done this a couple of times for friends (**) and the results are always great.

Any sanding over 800 will most likely be lost on the buffing wheel.

(*) You can keep your clothes if you want.
(**) The look on their faces was priceless.

[DMI]

I restore pipes for a living, have done so for nearly three years now and if I went through the ASP method it would take so long to complete a refurb that it would not be worthwhile. From the way the piece is written it appears a bit dated, I wonder how far polishing compounds have come since then?

With the amount of sanding and polishing it reccomends most smooth pipes would end up as bare wood, and sandblast/rustics little better, it is IMHO excessive to say the least.

Quote :For deeper scratches in the briar, and for tooth-marks and extreme oxidation on the stem, one will start with an abrasive film or paper with a 1000 grit size or finer.

A very clear reference to stems?

Most estates can be cleaned and polished using a fine compound such as Vonax on a soft wheel, I use a converted bench grinder at 3500 rpm, and then waxed, this I do on the lathe at 1200 then 800 rpm.

In extreme cases I clean the outside of the stummel with methylated spirit and a cloth or electric toothbrush depending on the finish.

Fairlight, the more you read about pipe restoration and cleaning the more frustrated you will become, different people have different ideas and methods. As in pipe making you start with the basics and develop your skills as you go along, I tried dozens of variations on the S/A method until I came up with a method that I find works for me, the same will go for you.

[Fairlight]

Fairlight, the more you read about pipe restoration and cleaning the more frustrated you will become, different people have different ideas and methods. As in pipe making you start with the basics and develop your skills as you go along, I tried dozens of variations on the S/A method until I came up with a method that I find works for me, the same will go for you.

I totally get your point and you 're right. The reason I am so concerned about sanding stummels is that this the way i used to restore them before getting a buffer. I was sanding them from 4000 grit to 12000 grit and the applying a soft wax with great results. When you start at 4000 it's virtually impossible to affect the stain.

Sanding with abrasives is out of the question, but the question remains, it is safe to use tripoli with a light touch on finishes like these?

[kbadkar]

... but the question remains, it is safe to use tripoli with a light touch on finishes like these?

Yup.

[Leus]

... but the question remains, it is safe to use tripoli with a light touch on finishes like these?

Yup.

Well, it still depends on your definition of "light touch." A friend of mine got a nice paneled Dunhill for a steal. The stem was ugly, and the pipe looked like it had been in the open for a long time (a greasy patina that didn't look too well.) Since he got it for cheap, in a visit to my workshop he asked me to buff it away. I used sandpaper on the stem, thought. The pipe came up nice and clean but I did remove quite a good deal of stain and some areas (edges, for instance) ended up showing some natural wood. The owner liked it better, but you have to be careful since pipes like Dunhill use a lot of stain to achieve a deep colour.

[Fairlight]

... but the question remains, it is safe to use tripoli with a light touch on finishes like these?

Yup.

Well, it still depends on your definition of "light touch." A friend of mine got a nice paneled Dunhill for a steal. The stem was ugly, and the pipe looked like it had been in the open for a long time (a greasy patina that didn't look too well.) Since he got it for cheap, in a visit to my workshop he asked me to buff it away. I used sandpaper on the stem, thought. The pipe came up nice and clean but I did remove quite a good deal of stain and some areas (edges, for instance) ended up showing some natural wood. The owner liked it better, but you have to be careful since pipes like Dunhill use a lot of stain to achieve a deep colour.

Sounds perfectly reasonable. 'Light touch' cannot be described in words and even if it could, theres always the huge differences between different setups you have to consider. I do understand that, I am just asking for your opinions on some general guidelines. And you have helped VERY much so far.

In the following months I will have to polish a blue ribband in a rather good condition. BR contrast staining is much lighter than dunhill's red bruyere. Would tripoli be a safer choice for the BR (or other contrast stainings) in that manner?

[Alan L]

I'd be tempted to try some white diamond first. With my setup (8" concentric sewed wheel@1750 rpm) it seems to be a little less aggressive than tripoli.

[kbadkar]

"light touch" is essential with tripoli... and white diamond,... in fact, any time you put a pipe to a buffing wheel.

If it is very grimey, use tripoli. If it is not as grimey, use white diamond... but always, the light touch.

On greenish stems, use sandpaper first. Sandpaper on the stummel removes the stain... don't use it unless you want to re-stain. Any sandpaper above ~800-1000 is pretty much useless. The buffer with tripoli will get rid of scratches that 600 grit leaves behind. I don't understand using grit above 1000, but I'm not Russian nor compulsive.

[Sasquatch]

Fairlight, you really, really need to buy a lot of 20 beater pipes on ebay.... pay 50 bucks for some trashed up old pipes, and restore them. You can read and read and read and what you'll find is that getting good results with any of this stuff takes a lot of practice. Luckily, crappy looking pipes are cheap cheap, so you can practice up without costing yourself much of anything, and not making someone's 200 dollar pipe look worse than when you got it.

[Fairlight]

Fairlight, you really, really need to buy a lot of 20 beater pipes on ebay.... pay 50 bucks for some trashed up old pipes, and restore them. You can read and read and read and what you'll find is that getting good results with any of this stuff takes a lot of practice. Luckily, crappy looking pipes are cheap cheap, so you can practice up without costing yourself much of anything, and not making someone's 200 dollar pipe look worse than when you got it.

Will do. Thanks anyone very much for your time and help I really appreciate it.

[Nick]

Love the electric tooth brish idea! I bet that's great for the gooked up tar on top of bowls!