fitting bamboo shaft to stummel and stem

abbeypipes · Post by **abbeypipes** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:40 am

hallo all
I am new to this web site it looks a nice site, I am a pipemaker in england and I am keen to know how the bomboo is fitted between stummel and stem , as I have never made one but I am keen to make one with bamboo being soft,my guess is some form of tubing connecting the parts am I right?or way off! thanks

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:47 am

Tyler and Todd Johnson are the reall experts here on bamboo. As I understand it, a tennon Tyler said yesterday he uses stainless steel, is fitted to the bamboo using epoxy I think. This tennon is then fitted to the stummel. Might be expoxied as well. I don't think we talked specifically about that. The other end of bamboo is mortised and the stem fits to it as it normally would.

Again, wait for Tyler and Todd to chime in. This tidbit was gleemed from a brief discussion on chat.

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:14 am

Gah! I keep forgetting to go online during the weekly chat times. Figures bamboo would be a discussion topic last night....

Post by **Tyler** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:31 pm

I'll be glad to write up how I do bamboo. Give me a bit, and I'll post it in the Pipe Making section and provide a link to it from here.

Kurt, there is no scheduled time for chat, as we couldn't really land on anything that folks could consistently make. Instead, there are a lot of impromtu chats. I try to make it a habit of going into the chat room when I am browsing the site in hopes that folks will notice in the chat block in the left-hand margin that someone is in the room. The Chat Nick is referring to was yesterday at about 3pm central. There were about 5 of us that had the mid-afternoon-I-want-to-chat-and-not-work blues.

Stay tuned for bamboo...

Tyler

Post by **Tyler** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:18 pm

Well, I typed something up, but I haven't even proofed it yet. Please feel free to point out typo's and ask questions so that I may clarify and make the description better. This process is very difficult to describe, especially without photos. Someday I'll fill out the pipe making section with photos, and when I do, the bamboo section will certainly benefit greatly. I'm not sure I described this well enough to be understood at all.

Hoepfully with everyone's help, I can clean it up though.

http://www.tylerlanepipes.com/modules.p ... boo_Shanks

Tyler

P.S. Forgive my poor manners for not saying so earlierr, but welcome to the forum abbeypipe!

Thanks for the good question.

hiway · Post by **hiway** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:18 pm

Good instructions Tyler. Now I really want to try a bamboo stem!

Thanks!

Dave

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:15 am

Tyler wrote:The Chat Nick is referring to was yesterday at about 3pm central. There were about 5 of us that had the mid-afternoon-I-want-to-chat-and-not-work blues.

That's going to be descriptive of my entire day today.

Thanks for the how-to on bamboo, Tyler. I've recently gotten a couple requests for bamboo-shanked pipes. Seems this is becoming more popular for some reason.

jeff · Post by **jeff** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:31 am

Tyler,
That was much clearer than you may have imagined. Thanks for the write up. I'd like to give it a shot. A couple of questions.

1. Is just any stainless steel tubing okay, or is there a particular supplier for a specific item that should be used?

2. Is any bamboo okay, or again, should it be of a specific quality and from a specific supplier or two?

3. How do you finish the bamboo or prep the outside for finishing? Is there any sanding that is necessary? If so, what grits and how far? Does this occur before or after fitting to the stummel?

Thanks

Jeff

Post by **Tyler** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 7:56 pm

Jeff,

1. I haven't actually bought stainless steel tubing yet. Another pipe maker set me up with about two feet of it, and I haven't made my way through it yet. I would guess that it is not a big deal what you use. I have also used brass tubing, which I actually found at Hobby Lobby. As Kirk Bosi mentions in another thread, Delrin is also used as a joint support for bamboo.

2. You need bamboo rhizome, which are underground shoots that grow horizontally to stabalize the plant. (They are not technically roots because their purpose is not to absorb nutrients. There are also roots, which are different.) The high quality stuff that you need is very hard to come by. The only source for it that I know of is Todd Johnson (http://www.stoabriars.com).

3. I do not sand the bamboo. I just buff it when I am buffing the rest of the pipe. Bamboo has a thin outter skin that you do not want to sand past. If you do, you will see the fibers of the bamboo. It is quite tricky to get a perfectly flush fit between the bamboo and shank (and stem) without sand the bamboo to the fibers. You must be very careful to sand only the briar or vulcanite down to match the bamboo and NOT sand the bamboo. I recently asked Tom Eltang if there was a trick to doing this. He said, "No, but after your first 1,000 of them you get the hang of it."

Tyler

jeff · Post by **jeff** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 7:07 pm

Tyler,
The tips were very helpful. I'll give it a shot as soon as I have the chance. Thanks again for the great help.

Jeff

BriarBlues · Post by **BriarBlues** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:38 am

Might I ask a further question with regards to fitting bamboo shank applications?

I have seen different "end" techniques used. Some makers ( Dunhill ) attaches the bamboo directly to the bowl and uses 2 brass ( I assume ) nails to hold the bamboo to the bowl. Others apply some sort of "end cap" such as Delrin, Ebonite or Lucite to the bowl end of the bamboo shaft and glue ( with tenon ) to the bowl. Also at the stem end I have seen both bare bamboo and "capped " ended bamboo.

Is there a specific reason that each would be used or just maker preferance? I would think the non capped ends would lead to some greater degree of difficulty when applying dye to the bowl. One missed swipe and the dye would possibly creep up into the bamboo and stain it. Or is the bamboo ends possibly sealed with some form of other material like glue before it is attached?

Personally I like the capped at both ends look. To me it looks cleaner and more "finished" if that makes sense.

Regards
Michael J. Glukler

ToddJohnson · Post by **ToddJohnson** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:03 am

BriarBlues wrote:Is there a specific reason that each would be used or just maker preferance? I would think the non capped ends would lead to some greater degree of difficulty when applying dye to the bowl. One missed swipe and the dye would possibly creep up into the bamboo and stain it. Or is the bamboo ends possibly sealed with some form of other material like glue before it is attached?

Mike,

The reason for the vulcanite ring at the joinder of shank and bamboo is several. For some (myself included) it is purely a matter of aesthetics and strength. For others it serves as a buffer zone for staining the pipe. At the stem end, a vulcanite ring or "cap" (as is the case with Jess and Jody) is essential. Bamboo, while significantly tough and fiberous is also somewhat soft and maleable when subjected to stress. The insertion and removal of a tenon over and over can cause the end of the bamboo to give way a bit producing a slightly conical mortise and an imperfect joint between bamboo and stem. The ring is actually fitted over a bamboo tenon that has been turned down on the end, and provides rigidity. It essentially makes it impossible for the mortise to expand or get out of round due to insertion of the tenon.

If you know how to do it and you've done it enough, it's very simple to attach the bamboo to the shank of the pipe after everything (except buffing) has been completed. It's basically just like inserting or removing a stem and then re-aligning it with the shank. This alleviates any staining problems that come from a "bare" joint. This is a technique that can be employed with non-bamboo pieces as well. You can see a quirky example of this here: www.stoabriars.com/photos/ArtemisGroup.JPG

Hope that's helpful.

Best,

Todd

ArtGuy · Post by **ArtGuy** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:12 am

It seems to me that one could use the 5/32" stainless steel tube and vulcanite ring on the stem end just like the end attached to the stummel.

Then you could drill the stem ( sans tenon ) with a 5/32" mortise and attach the stem by inserting the tube into it rather than the traditional method of fitting the stem with a tenon and fitting it into a mortise.

So when the stem was attached it would look like any other but when removed there would be a stainless steel tube protruding from the bamboo and no tenon on the stem.

Does that make sense?

Am I confused on the whole thing and this is how it actually is done?

BriarBlues · Post by **BriarBlues** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:18 am

Hi Todd;

Thanks. That explanation plus the link makes it clear.

Regards
Michael J. Glukler

ToddJohnson · Post by **ToddJohnson** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:34 am

ArtGuy wrote:It seems to me that one could use the 5/32" stainless steel tube and vulcanite ring on the stem end just like the end attached to the stummel.

Then you could drill the stem ( sans tenon ) with a 5/32" mortise and attach the stem by inserting the tube into it rather than the traditional method of fitting the stem with a tenon and fitting it into a mortise.

So when the stem was attached it would look like any other but when removed there would be a stainless steel tube protruding from the bamboo and no tenon on the stem.

Does that make sense?

Am I confused on the whole thing and this is how it actually is done?

That's the way Rainer Barbi and some others do it many times. I believe Rainer actually lines the entire length of bamboo with stainless steel.

Todd

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:58 pm

ToddJohnson wrote: That's the way Rainer Barbi and some others do it many times. I believe Rainer actually lines the entire length of bamboo with stainless steel.

I'm working on a pipe now that has this method of construction. I have some stainless tubing with a 5/32" inner diameter and a *mumble* outer diameter. I plan on using the steel to line the bamboo for the entire length - mostly because I feel it needs the added strength (but that's mostly because I tend to over-engineer for strength).

BriarBrian · Post by **BriarBrian** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:17 pm

someone just emailed and asked me about this also ill paste the method i use to attach bamboo with i feel pretty easy and everyday common items bought at home depot and walmart believe it or not. I have never had any problems with bamboo coming off or spliting at the stem. here it goes

Bambo i attach with threaded stainless steel rod.

Go to home depot get some 1/4-20 stainless drill rod, solid of course, youll have to drill it out on your lathe. Take and put it on your chuck and drill a 4mm hole through it, use cutting fluid and a hardened drill bit i start by drilling a pilot hole first with a 2.5 mm drill bit. drill about 1 inch of the rod out.

Then take and get a 1/4-20 tap and T-handle and look on a drill chart or even on the tap package that will tell you what size drill bit to use. then i drill the bamboo by hand with a 4mm drill bit, but start with a small 1/32" drill first or even smaller and work your way up to tha drilling the bamboo to 4mm. then after you get it drilled to 4mm, drill it just a little bit, about 1/2" into the bamboo with the drill thats sized for the tap ( i think it is a #7 sized drill bit for the 1/4-20 tap, but check me on that). then tap the bamboo. do the same to the shank of the pipe coming out. Make a small trim ring for in between the bamboo and the bowl of the pipe and tap that too. now screw it all together and test fit it, if the bamboo doesnt fit the way you want it to(as in the large knuckles are on an angle, etc.) use your disk sander to flatten it more so it will turn more on the threaded rod. just keep doing that till its close then sand the end of the bamboo to make it square to the shank of the bowl with them emory boards . then i use a 2 part epoxy from walmart to epoxy it all together, i think the name of the epoxy is power poxy. its a great epoxy cause it stays a little bit flexible and doesnt get brittle like some really hard epoxies do, but still has a very high strength to it. make sure you put the epoxy only on the outside of the threaded rod when you glue it all together, if you dont and coat the inside of the holes in the shank and the bamboo, you will end up blocking the draft hole in the shank and bowl.

What i use for the mortise end o the bamboo ill try to explain below, its hard to explain so if im unclear please ask. See i line the whole mortise with delrin down to the bottom of the bamboo just as if it was a regular shanked pipe, as in the tenon goes just about to the bottom of the mortise in the bamboo( i leave a very small space in there maybe .001-.002 for expansion) Nothing i hate more then a pipe that the tenon gowes allt he way to the bottom of the mortise and then has a ring of light around the end of the shank where the stem doest go all the way to the shank face.

you have to match up the size drill thats the largest you can drill ino the bamboo for a delrin sheath as you can without going through the bamboo itself. Drill this out but first the #7 drill above then i move up 1/32" each drill bit size till im statisfied with the size of the mortise end of the bamboo to accept the delrin sheath. i then get a piece of delrin chucke don my lathe and first thing i do is drill it out to 4mm. Then i turn it down until the delrin will fit inside the bamboo. Then cut very small rings on the otuside of the delrin to alow the epoxy to grab onto, epoxy doesnt hold delrin too well so this is critical here. then i epoxy the delrin sheath into the bamboo.

The stem i use a stainless steel tenon on the end of it, with a 4mm hole insode the smooth stainless tubing. i had some staunless tubing found for me that is kind of special it has the outside of the stainless tubing turned down to 5mm so i drill my stem on my lateh just like i would normally drill it, then i take and drill a 5mm hole in the end to accept the stainless tubing and epoxy that in and your done.

Now to get the end of the bamboo shank so there is no light between the stem and shank you take emory boards and sit and sand it down and test fit the stem until no light shows.

I knwo this is kind of invloved but really doesnt take as long as it seems, and makes a very strong joint a the bowl end . you will never have the epoxy let loose and then the bamboo is able to slid off the pipe, I have had a pipe in the past where this has happened to me so maybe this is overkill on my part i dont know.

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