Why a 9 x 20 and not a 7 x 12

[adryazad]

Hi guys,

I know that the issue on lathes has been repeatedly discussed. I for one, have spent a couple of weeks absorbing information here, and discussing with other pipemakers about lathes.

The story begins like this, I was in search of getting a lathe, be it a Metal lathe or a wood lathe. And initially I was looking at the JET MINI 1014L http://www.jet.com.my/images/woodworkin ... 014VSL.pdf This unit has ample swing over bed @ 250mm and distance between centers @ 305mm.. can be kitted out with a 4 jaw chuck, and jacobs chuck at the tail stock end..

the down side? I won't have the precision of cutting tenons for stems, and did I mention that the total price of the Lathe, 4 Jaw Chuck, Jacobs Chuck and some cutting gauges will add up to be MYR 3547.60 @ USD1132.15

I then looked at a BV 20 (a chinese lathe) http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/l ... -BV20.html However, the unit quoted to be came with a 360 distance between centers instead, and this would cost me about USD 1116.96, without accessories.

Fortunately, my college had a unit of this very same lathe, and I went over to check it out. Please correct me if I'm wrong my dear learned colleagues.

Please correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I reckon that a 9 x 20 is recommended over a 7 x 12 is not only due to the extra Swing over bed the 9 x 20 has, but also for the following:-

On a 7 x 12, after relocating the tailstock end in front of the tool carriage, the remaining DISTANCE BETWEEN CENTERS would have decrease by alot, hence leaving very little space between the following :

4 Jaw Chuck ---> Briar Block ---> Drill bit (be it shank drillbit or chamber bit) -----> jacobs chuck

Hence now I'm in a dillemma, a darn 9 x 20 just cost too much here, there's pretty much a non existant second hand market here in Malaysia, and even though I did manage to find an 9 x 20 Oxford Lathe, the old guy wasn't willing to part with it, even though I offered him USD 1000, and the fact that he could no long walk nor see anymore (he's blind now)..

Should i just bite the bullet, and purchase the Jet Mini set kitted up and only use delrin inserts for tenons? And is my reasoning between the difference between a 9 x 20 and a 7 x 12 correct, or is there a way to remove the tool carriage when drilling shanks and bowls?

Cheers,

Adry

[KurtHuhn]

The 7x12 is simply too small for stummel work - for exactly the reason you described.

Additionally, I have never seen a quality 7x12 lathe. They always seem to be total crap. I am aware that there are websites dedicated to the tuning and tweaking of these things, and the members there are fairly rabid in their support of the lathe. However, there are also people who insist that a convertible Smart ForTwo is a perfectly reasonable vehicle to drive on the highway at 75 MPH.

I have strongly suggested to everyone who asks that they pass over the 7x12 in favor of damn near anything else. Some folks ignore the advice, and invariably they end up upset and irritated with the lathe, and eventually sell it to the next unsuspecting person.

[Sasquatch]

I cut tenons on a Jet mini, adry. It's not that hard to cut 'em by hand. Takes about 10 minutes to get it to fit. Probably takes 2 on a metal lathe. We've talked long about this, and you know where I stand in terms of answering "can I make pipes on the mini" - the answer is yes.

But it does have size limitations. I'm not sure I could hook up the Bealle buffing system as it seems to require a full 14" of space, for example. I don't know if you could drill a stem on a 7x12, for example.

As Kurt mentions, there are lots of small lathes out there, but being "just barely big enough" (like the Jet mini) and being "just barely good enough" are different. At least the Jet is a good machine, and a couple years from now, that pays off because a) you don't hate it and b) you can sell it and upgrade when this whole pipemaking thing takes off for you.


I'd go bug that old man again, and maybe threaten him a little this time.

[adryazad]

I cut tenons on a Jet mini, adry. It's not that hard to cut 'em by hand. Takes about 10 minutes to get it to fit. Probably takes 2 on a metal lathe. We've talked long about this, and you know where I stand in terms of answering "can I make pipes on the mini" - the answer is yes.

But it does have size limitations. I'm not sure I could hook up the Bealle buffing system as it seems to require a full 14" of space, for example. I don't know if you could drill a stem on a 7x12, for example.

As Kurt mentions, there are lots of small lathes out there, but being "just barely big enough" (like the Jet mini) and being "just barely good enough" are different. At least the Jet is a good machine, and a couple years from now, that pays off because a) you don't hate it and b) you can sell it and upgrade when this whole pipemaking thing takes off for you.


I'd go bug that old man again, and maybe threaten him a little this time.

Yeap, I'm bugging the Old man again, because i found it he has a 4 jaw chuck and such.. We'll see how much he settles for.

On another note, I was asking this question for 2 reasons. Instead of just listening on why a 9X20 is preferred, I wanted to really understand the obstacles, be it for myself or for any other person who will go look for a lathe later on.

Thanks for all the replies!

cheers,

Adry

[Philthy]

I fairly recently purchased a Jet Mini 1014 (within the last year) and I did not pay nearly the $1000 plus you describe. At Woodcraft on sale (which they do periodically) I got the lathe, purchased the 4 jaw along with several other chucks again on sale and then bought tower jaws and a jacobs chuck separately. I would have to double check my cost but by the end I was closer to $500-$600 at most rather than $1000. Of course your prices may be totally different in Malaysia in which case just throw a sharp cornered piece of briar at me and tell me to shut up. (please make it a nice large piece of briar with nice grain )

[adryazad]

I fairly recently purchased a Jet Mini 1014 (within the last year) and I did not pay nearly the $1000 plus you describe. At Woodcraft on sale (which they do periodically) I got the lathe, purchased the 4 jaw along with several other chucks again on sale and then bought tower jaws and a jacobs chuck separately. I would have to double check my cost but by the end I was closer to $500-$600 at most rather than $1000. Of course your prices may be totally different in Malaysia in which case just throw a sharp cornered piece of briar at me and tell me to shut up. (please make it a nice large piece of briar with nice grain )

yeah i hear you man, but what can be done about this, nothing much really Odd enough shipping to Malaysia from Taiwan / China should be cheaper than Taiwan / China to the US.. hehe..

Ps. I may end up with a 1014 as well