An admission, and some musing
An admission, and some musing
Tyler was right. He's been right all along, but I see it now with clarity. How could such a thing be?
Let's back up. Perhaps there's some way out of this, some argument, some fact I've overlooked.
I don't expect that everyone sees it, or follows anything myself or Tyler has said over the last few years. So I'll lay it out pretty explicitly just so anyone reading will know what I'm talking about.
Coming out of nowhere, realizing that making pipes is really pretty hard, and trying to sell them at a price that's fair for the maker and the buyer, I have always compared my pipes to other available brands - what value do I offer, what can my potential customer buy for 75 dollars, or 100, or 150, or 300... (Pipe makers sell pipes, that's what this game is.) Tyler's approach was different - in essence (and feel free to correct any of this Tyler), Tyler's advice was, learn to make pipes, get good at it, then hit the market with a brand, market the brand as a brand, and be a big success.
I couldn't understand how you could get good at pipes before you sold, say, 50 or so, and so my approach has been to sell pipes at just about any price I could, sell and make and sell and make and develop slowly and build a client base at the same time. "Brand" and "marketing" are utterly secondary in my approach. I take awful pictures, I don't promote myself except by joking around on forums. I don't have fancy stamping or grading. If you want a pipe, come find me. Not much of a concept.
In all of this, there is a common thread however: pipes that are good enough will sell. This is just a fact.
Where am I going here? Where is this revelation?
I bought a Dunhill. Got an old one, a 1969 shape 120. Unsmoked, N.I.B. A real classic.
It is no longer unsmoked.
"What was it like, oh mighty Sasquatch, who art wise in the ways of smoking pipes?" the crowd cries.
It was utterly fucking fantastic. I kid you not. It's a great smoker. It's probably my best smoker, and I have a lot of awfully nice pipes. The draw is beautifully smooth, just load it, light it, and wake up in an hour. It doesn't get hot, it tastes great, doesn't gurgle. It's as good as a pipe could be, I think. And yet, it's far from perfect. The stem could be thinner - here's a pic of one of mine, it's slightly thinner for slightly longer, and overall just a little more comfortable in the teeth than the Dunnie, and I don't cut especially super thin stems (Dunhil on the left):
It doesn't pass a cleaner, doesn't even pretend to. You couldn't get this pipe to pass a cleaner without applying a 10 ton electromagnet to the shank. The finish level on it is.... all right, but in all honesty, I think most of us get a better finish on our pipes. (In Tyler's words, Dunhill is not a benchmark for pipe making, but a benchmark for pipe marketing - this is true on one hand.)
I wouldn't have sent a new pipe out the door in this condition. I strive for better finish, better bit work, and better drilling. And yet.... I paid 400 bucks for this Dunhill and I don't regret it at all, either as a smoker or as a pipe to look at, copy, and learn from.
What do I learn? I learn that the 200 dollar handmade Danish pipe I also just bought will never, ever smoke as good as this Dunhill, and the Dunhill weighs half of what the freehand does. So, I blew 200 bucks, could have bought half a Dunhill.
More importantly I learn that these pipes are cut for business. No spare material - take your average Italian midgrade, and cut 30% of the weight off it, and make the stem more comfortable, and you've got a Dunhill. I am seriously considering selling a lot of my collection, and GETTING more dunhills. No one, NO one, could be more surprised than myself. I'm like, the anti-Dunhill, anti-marketing crusader. And I'm immediately converted.
I also learned that the pipes I'm currently making are EVERY BIT as good as a Dunhill in terms of fit and finish, and from what I'm told and have experienced for myself, the smoking experience. That kind of surprises me. And it didn't come by accident - I've worked hard at this.
So, enough self-congratulatory indulgence. What's the point?
Point is, you've got to make good pipes. Pipes that look good, and smoke good. If you do that, they'll sell, they'll keep selling, and you get to retire filthy rich and be all famous and hang out with Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan, maybe at the same time. The bigger point is that Dunhill's marketing, their niche (which they also fill), is a big big part of their success. The pipe is very good, but no better than the best of what Peterson offers, for example. But a Pete is just a Pete. A Dunhill is a Dunhill and you know it because they tell you over and over again, with multiple pieces of paper, a box, a silk bag, a congratulatory handshake a wink, that their pipe is better than anything else in the universe, and you walk out smiling even though you know it's total bullshit!
I think every aspiring pipe maker here should buy a Dunhill, or some other high grade pipe, possibly from one of the makers active today - a Rad, a Ruthenberg, hell maybe even an eMarkle if you're not very bright. I think it's nearly impossible to understand what you are "supposed to be doing" if you have a collection full of fat assed, fat stemmed Italian midgrades, or even some of those funky 70s freehands from Denmark. The fact is, most of these pipes are only reasonably good in many, many ways. Comfort, balance, smoking, all of it. There's better out there and until you experience it for yourself, you will have a tough time making a superior pipe.
My next pipe? Copy a Dunhill 120, except drill it better. Finsh it better. Out-Dunhill Dunhill, and then sell it for half the price of a Dunhill. Stupid, I know. Well, to hell with it. LOL
The moral of the story, I think, is that it's possible to make an absolutely terrific pipe - there's no magic involved here, just understanding and practice. How you get there is up to you, but you absolutely cannot compare your own product on a value vs value level with anything coming out of Italy or England (or China) right now. Do your thing, make the pipes and sell 'em, keep doing it, and do it as good as you can. But a dollar isn't a dollar in the custom pipe world, and focusing on that is not the best approach. Who the hell cares what someone can get for $124.70. Anyone looking to buy your pipe is looking to buy YOUR pipe, and that's the fundamental thing here. My copy of a Dunhill won't be a Dunhill - it will be a BST, no matter what, and that's why it's gonna sell, and that's why someone is going to smoke the hell out of it.
Let's back up. Perhaps there's some way out of this, some argument, some fact I've overlooked.
I don't expect that everyone sees it, or follows anything myself or Tyler has said over the last few years. So I'll lay it out pretty explicitly just so anyone reading will know what I'm talking about.
Coming out of nowhere, realizing that making pipes is really pretty hard, and trying to sell them at a price that's fair for the maker and the buyer, I have always compared my pipes to other available brands - what value do I offer, what can my potential customer buy for 75 dollars, or 100, or 150, or 300... (Pipe makers sell pipes, that's what this game is.) Tyler's approach was different - in essence (and feel free to correct any of this Tyler), Tyler's advice was, learn to make pipes, get good at it, then hit the market with a brand, market the brand as a brand, and be a big success.
I couldn't understand how you could get good at pipes before you sold, say, 50 or so, and so my approach has been to sell pipes at just about any price I could, sell and make and sell and make and develop slowly and build a client base at the same time. "Brand" and "marketing" are utterly secondary in my approach. I take awful pictures, I don't promote myself except by joking around on forums. I don't have fancy stamping or grading. If you want a pipe, come find me. Not much of a concept.
In all of this, there is a common thread however: pipes that are good enough will sell. This is just a fact.
Where am I going here? Where is this revelation?
I bought a Dunhill. Got an old one, a 1969 shape 120. Unsmoked, N.I.B. A real classic.
It is no longer unsmoked.
"What was it like, oh mighty Sasquatch, who art wise in the ways of smoking pipes?" the crowd cries.
It was utterly fucking fantastic. I kid you not. It's a great smoker. It's probably my best smoker, and I have a lot of awfully nice pipes. The draw is beautifully smooth, just load it, light it, and wake up in an hour. It doesn't get hot, it tastes great, doesn't gurgle. It's as good as a pipe could be, I think. And yet, it's far from perfect. The stem could be thinner - here's a pic of one of mine, it's slightly thinner for slightly longer, and overall just a little more comfortable in the teeth than the Dunnie, and I don't cut especially super thin stems (Dunhil on the left):
It doesn't pass a cleaner, doesn't even pretend to. You couldn't get this pipe to pass a cleaner without applying a 10 ton electromagnet to the shank. The finish level on it is.... all right, but in all honesty, I think most of us get a better finish on our pipes. (In Tyler's words, Dunhill is not a benchmark for pipe making, but a benchmark for pipe marketing - this is true on one hand.)
I wouldn't have sent a new pipe out the door in this condition. I strive for better finish, better bit work, and better drilling. And yet.... I paid 400 bucks for this Dunhill and I don't regret it at all, either as a smoker or as a pipe to look at, copy, and learn from.
What do I learn? I learn that the 200 dollar handmade Danish pipe I also just bought will never, ever smoke as good as this Dunhill, and the Dunhill weighs half of what the freehand does. So, I blew 200 bucks, could have bought half a Dunhill.
More importantly I learn that these pipes are cut for business. No spare material - take your average Italian midgrade, and cut 30% of the weight off it, and make the stem more comfortable, and you've got a Dunhill. I am seriously considering selling a lot of my collection, and GETTING more dunhills. No one, NO one, could be more surprised than myself. I'm like, the anti-Dunhill, anti-marketing crusader. And I'm immediately converted.
I also learned that the pipes I'm currently making are EVERY BIT as good as a Dunhill in terms of fit and finish, and from what I'm told and have experienced for myself, the smoking experience. That kind of surprises me. And it didn't come by accident - I've worked hard at this.
So, enough self-congratulatory indulgence. What's the point?
Point is, you've got to make good pipes. Pipes that look good, and smoke good. If you do that, they'll sell, they'll keep selling, and you get to retire filthy rich and be all famous and hang out with Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan, maybe at the same time. The bigger point is that Dunhill's marketing, their niche (which they also fill), is a big big part of their success. The pipe is very good, but no better than the best of what Peterson offers, for example. But a Pete is just a Pete. A Dunhill is a Dunhill and you know it because they tell you over and over again, with multiple pieces of paper, a box, a silk bag, a congratulatory handshake a wink, that their pipe is better than anything else in the universe, and you walk out smiling even though you know it's total bullshit!
I think every aspiring pipe maker here should buy a Dunhill, or some other high grade pipe, possibly from one of the makers active today - a Rad, a Ruthenberg, hell maybe even an eMarkle if you're not very bright. I think it's nearly impossible to understand what you are "supposed to be doing" if you have a collection full of fat assed, fat stemmed Italian midgrades, or even some of those funky 70s freehands from Denmark. The fact is, most of these pipes are only reasonably good in many, many ways. Comfort, balance, smoking, all of it. There's better out there and until you experience it for yourself, you will have a tough time making a superior pipe.
My next pipe? Copy a Dunhill 120, except drill it better. Finsh it better. Out-Dunhill Dunhill, and then sell it for half the price of a Dunhill. Stupid, I know. Well, to hell with it. LOL
The moral of the story, I think, is that it's possible to make an absolutely terrific pipe - there's no magic involved here, just understanding and practice. How you get there is up to you, but you absolutely cannot compare your own product on a value vs value level with anything coming out of Italy or England (or China) right now. Do your thing, make the pipes and sell 'em, keep doing it, and do it as good as you can. But a dollar isn't a dollar in the custom pipe world, and focusing on that is not the best approach. Who the hell cares what someone can get for $124.70. Anyone looking to buy your pipe is looking to buy YOUR pipe, and that's the fundamental thing here. My copy of a Dunhill won't be a Dunhill - it will be a BST, no matter what, and that's why it's gonna sell, and that's why someone is going to smoke the hell out of it.
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!
Re: An admission, and some musing
Tyler and I had a similar talk on the phone a while back. I agree with everything you've said, still, pricing and marketing is the worst part of making pipes. Around here college kids have no money to buy a good smoking pipe, so I often find myself selling pipes to them pretty cheap. I don't think they know what they're getting. Their first pipe, a estate Grabow or something similar, in all reality probably looks better than my pipe. But they come back because mine are more comfortable and smoke a hell of a lot better.
I'm approaching the one year mark in pipe making and have sold about thirty pipes. Everyone I know who bought one from me likes it and some have come back for more.
I think I'll keep making pipes and hire Tyler to market them for me.
Re: An admission, and some musing
Ocelot55 wrote: I think I'll keep making pipes
Ya mon.
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!
Re: An admission, and some musing
Great write up Sas! I remember when I bought my first high grade and realized how a pipe should really be, it was one of them Rad pipes and now I own a couple of them. Studying and smoking those pipes I've learned alot and know what I need to do to make a great pipe, but knowing and doing are two completely different things.
Abe
Abe
Re: An admission, and some musing
great write up sas.. but if i was tyler i'd start running when i saw you.. no need for a wet and slobbery sas kiss..
james
james
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Re: An admission, and some musing
Well, what do you know, I am finally right about something.
Ironically, despite Sas's agreement, I certainly don't have the pipe business mastered. I had a slow show at what I think could be characterized as a great show for many artisan carvers. The good news is I am re-establishing my brand by being at the show, and I'll do a lot of work to prevent a slow show in the future.
IMO, I offered really good pipes at a price that is in accord with the market. Unfortunately, the market (at the show, at least) forgot who I was. I'll be reminding them the next few months.
Ironically, despite Sas's agreement, I certainly don't have the pipe business mastered. I had a slow show at what I think could be characterized as a great show for many artisan carvers. The good news is I am re-establishing my brand by being at the show, and I'll do a lot of work to prevent a slow show in the future.
IMO, I offered really good pipes at a price that is in accord with the market. Unfortunately, the market (at the show, at least) forgot who I was. I'll be reminding them the next few months.
Tyler Lane Pipes
http://www.tylerlanepipes.com
http://www.tylerlanepipes.com
- baweaverpipes
- The Awesomer
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Re: An admission, and some musing
I recall meeting someone at the show named Tyler. As I recall, a quiet and unassuming fellow. Was that you?Tyler wrote:Unfortunately, the market (at the show, at least) forgot who I was. I'll be reminding them the next few months.
Dang, I didn't know you made pipes. Cool!
Re: An admission, and some musing
Woohoo! That's the spirit! Knock 'em dead!Tyler wrote:Unfortunately, the market (at the show, at least) forgot who I was. I'll be reminding them the next few months.
Re: An admission, and some musing
I've been in sales since before I got out of college with that ridiculous music degree . I've done everything from waiting tables to high end software sales, selling multi-million dollar deals.
While quality is important, perceived value is EXTREMELY important to customers. They don't just want to know they have a great product by testing and comparing it, they want to "think" they have a great product as well.
That might sound odd, but perception is key. You might make an awesome pipe and have a terrible presentation and not sell many because of it. If you make an awesome pipe, back it up with outstanding presentation and branding as well. That's the hard part, because it's not as fun as making pipes. The way a customer receives his pipe is so important. They want to feel they received something special before they've even smoked it.
Imaging getting your Mount Blanc fountain pen in a paper lunch bag. Imagine giving your fiancé her diamond ring in a zip lock. The pen is still going to write great, the ring is still going to sparkle, but that first contact with both items would be memorable...and not in a good way.
Quality is paramount, marketing is a necessity. Branding is a way of making both last.
My 2 cents and long winded way of saying, "I agree".
Brian.
While quality is important, perceived value is EXTREMELY important to customers. They don't just want to know they have a great product by testing and comparing it, they want to "think" they have a great product as well.
That might sound odd, but perception is key. You might make an awesome pipe and have a terrible presentation and not sell many because of it. If you make an awesome pipe, back it up with outstanding presentation and branding as well. That's the hard part, because it's not as fun as making pipes. The way a customer receives his pipe is so important. They want to feel they received something special before they've even smoked it.
Imaging getting your Mount Blanc fountain pen in a paper lunch bag. Imagine giving your fiancé her diamond ring in a zip lock. The pen is still going to write great, the ring is still going to sparkle, but that first contact with both items would be memorable...and not in a good way.
Quality is paramount, marketing is a necessity. Branding is a way of making both last.
My 2 cents and long winded way of saying, "I agree".
Brian.
Re: An admission, and some musing
I agree also.
Chris
Chris
“The value of tobacco is best understood when it is the last you possess and there is no chance of getting more.”
Re: An admission, and some musing
Growley is right.
I learned a long time ago that in the business world "Perception is Reality".
Todd
I learned a long time ago that in the business world "Perception is Reality".
Todd
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Re: An admission, and some musing
Exactly, what Growley said. That lesson has been hammered into my head over and over again. Its pretty much the reason people go to Starbucks for coffee(I work at Starbucks, don't be hatin'). People pay more for art than they do for a cheeseburger, remember that and sell your work as functional art. Even you Sas, maybe your art is just more neolithic than most. But hey- people still seem to like those cave paintings?
Re: An admission, and some musing
The fundamental confusion between the ontic and the epistemic - the knife edge difference between reality and perception.
Imagine the prices I could get if I sew some silk bags and make up a little card with a poem about each pipe......but nothing rhymes with "oil cured"....
Imagine the prices I could get if I sew some silk bags and make up a little card with a poem about each pipe......but nothing rhymes with "oil cured"....
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!
Re: An admission, and some musing
PS Neolithic is cool, you stupid Yeti.
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!
Re: An admission, and some musing
Sasquatch wrote:The fundamental confusion between the ontic and the epistemic - the knife edge difference between reality and perception.
Imagine the prices I could get if I sew some silk bags and make up a little card with a poem about each pipe......but nothing rhymes with "oil cured"....
You could use this: This pipe is oil cured, and guaranteed to not taste like a turd.
Abe
Re: An admission, and some musing
'And though they be not oil cured,'
'There 'tis no less toil endured,'
'By Bannardian arms which work like gears,'
'To put forth the art of Briar, Sweat and Tears.'
'There 'tis no less toil endured,'
'By Bannardian arms which work like gears,'
'To put forth the art of Briar, Sweat and Tears.'
Re: An admission, and some musing
BeatusLiebowitz wrote:'And though they be not oil cured,'
'There 'tis no less toil endured,'
'By Bannardian arms which work like gears,'
'To put forth the art of Briar, Sweat and Tears.'
You Sir, stand corrected....Sasquatch wrote: nothing rhymes with "oil cured"....
Ryan Alden
http://www.aldenpipes.com
http://www.aldenpipes.com
Re: An admission, and some musing
LAH wrote:Sasquatch wrote:The fundamental confusion between the ontic and the epistemic - the knife edge difference between reality and perception.
Imagine the prices I could get if I sew some silk bags and make up a little card with a poem about each pipe......but nothing rhymes with "oil cured"....
You could use this: This pipe is oil cured, and guaranteed to not taste like a turd.
Abe
Wow. Except that's not a guarantee I can offer......
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!
Re: An admission, and some musing
I do stand corrected. This is shameful.
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!