Adhesive/Glue

[socrates]

Was thinking of laminating some Mesquite and Maple to see how it would work. What is a good glue to use in light of the heat generated when smoking and the potential for glue failure and/or harmful fume release? Thanks

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[Sasquatch]

Are you talking about making a laminated bowl or just some kind of adornment?

[scotties22]

Elmer's paste. I figure if my kids can eat it then it's probably safe for most things. And the smell if fantastic!!

Like Sas said, depends on what you are doing with it.

[E.L.Cooley]

While on the subject of glue. I have two questions on glue. I've seen CA glue mentioned what is that. Then I have also seen mentioned after cutting a long tenon and making wood inlay rings gluing them together. Do you only glue the inlay pieces to each other or do you glue them all to the stem?


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[Alden]

CA is a short for Cyanoacrylate.

[BobR]

CA glue is superglue.

Bob

[oklahoma red]

While on the subject of glue. I have two questions on glue. I've seen CA glue mentioned what is that. Then I have also seen mentioned after cutting a long tenon and making wood inlay rings gluing them together. Do you only glue the inlay pieces to each other or do you glue them all to the stem?

Ring materials are glued to each other and to the tenon that has been turned on the shank. If you don't glue to the tenon the whole slug will fall off of the shank when the stem is removed.
Two ways to doing this are to either pre-glue your laminate layers together then drill a hole thru them to match the diameter of the tenon or assemble the whole stack on the tenon, gluing liberally as you go then clamp the whole stack in one shot. I've done it both ways depending on what materials I'm working with.
Personal preference: I use a quality epoxy to glue it all up rather than superglue. You have more working time. I just use the nose of the chuck in the tail stock to provide clamp pressure. Or I'll make a little pad if the nose doesn't fit well. After glue is dried you turn it all down as one to the final shape/diameter. If all the components in your layers are wood you can use a quality wood glue such as Titebond III instead of epoxy. Although Titebond and Elmers are basically PVA (polyvinylalcohol) glues and will soften somewhat with heat. I would not use PVA close to the bowl just to be safe. Nor would I use it if any naturally oily woods are involved.
Depending on the design parameters, this same procedure can be used to apply said rings to the stem instead of the shank.
And, the same technique can also be utilized in the realm of shape first then drill tho the steps are somewhat different.
Chas.

[E.L.Cooley]

Thanks for the input chas


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[socrates]

Are you talking about making a laminated bowl or just some kind of adornment?

Laminating the whole pipe. I have done laminating work over the years in high school, as a Seabee and in making knife handles and things. Have never done it where health was a factor in its use.

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[socrates]

Elmer's paste. I figure if my kids can eat it then it's probably safe for most things. And the smell if fantastic!!

Like Sas said, depends on what you are doing with it.

Ya it would be hard using it and keeping a spoon out of it lol.

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[socrates]

While on the subject of glue. I have two questions on glue. I've seen CA glue mentioned what is that. Then I have also seen mentioned after cutting a long tenon and making wood inlay rings gluing them together. Do you only glue the inlay pieces to each other or do you glue them all to the stem?

Ring materials are glued to each other and to the tenon that has been turned on the shank. If you don't glue to the tenon the whole slug will fall off of the shank when the stem is removed.
Two ways to doing this are to either pre-glue your laminate layers together then drill a hole thru them to match the diameter of the tenon or assemble the whole stack on the tenon, gluing liberally as you go then clamp the whole stack in one shot. I've done it both ways depending on what materials I'm working with.
Personal preference: I use a quality epoxy to glue it all up rather than superglue. You have more working time. I just use the nose of the chuck in the tail stock to provide clamp pressure. Or I'll make a little pad if the nose doesn't fit well. After glue is dried you turn it all down as one to the final shape/diameter. If all the components in your layers are wood you can use a quality wood glue such as Titebond III instead of epoxy. Although Titebond and Elmers are basically PVA (polyvinylalcohol) glues and will soften somewhat with heat. I would not use PVA close to the bowl just to be safe. Nor would I use it if any naturally oily woods are involved.
Depending on the design parameters, this same procedure can be used to apply said rings to the stem instead of the shank.
And, the same technique can also be utilized in the realm of shape first then drill tho the steps are somewhat different.
Chas.

Thanks you have answered another question I had. I read an old article and it mentioned Casien glue, any good and is it still available? How about a urea glue?

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[socrates]

Thanks all for your help folks. I have to go mix up some strawberry flavored library paste now lol.

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[oklahoma red]

I read an old article and it mentioned Casien glue, any good and is it still available? How about a urea glue?

This is a case where the "hard-to-find" stuff offers no clear advantage (more likely none at all). Both of these glues are highly water resistant. Unless you are trying to figure out how to smoke a pipe while SCUBA diving-why bother? Urea is nasty stuff and contains formaldehyde. I don't think so. I prefer cremation over embalming. Casein is made from milk. Would probably be ok and you can make it yourself if you are so inclined. But again, why bother? And again, again it offers no distinct advantage in the pipe making world over what is readily available and proven to work (IMHO).
Chas.

[socrates]

I read an old article and it mentioned Casien glue, any good and is it still available? How about a urea glue?

This is a case where the "hard-to-find" stuff offers no clear advantage (more likely none at all). Both of these glues are highly water resistant. Unless you are trying to figure out how to smoke a pipe while SCUBA diving-why bother? Urea is nasty stuff and contains formaldehyde. I don't think so. I prefer cremation over embalming. Casein is made from milk. Would probably be ok and you can make it yourself if you are so inclined. But again, why bother? And again, again it offers no distinct advantage in the pipe making world over what is readily available and proven to work (IMHO).
Chas.

Thanks, I am not trying to re-invent anything. That is really counter productive. I have used urea glue as far back as the early 1960s. You are right it's a stinky mess to mix up but all the surfboard fins I made for a local surf shop always held up and were never affected by water. I joined this forum to learn all I can about the art of pipe making. Of all the pipes I have seen I don't recall seeing laminated that included the bowel. I'm sure there are some out there. The intent of my thread was to ascertain a type of glue that would suit my needs. The use of CA either thin, medium or thick are common to me as are the various epoxies, etc. Perhaps a Google search will better serve my need.

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[oklahoma red]

Socrates,
I for one will applaud you willingness to do research first. If you study pipe design both here and anywhere on the net in regards to adhesives I think you will find that everyone tries to avoid having any type of glue in direct contact with the burning tobacco or the resulting smoke. We all know the smoke itself is bad enough but adding anything noxious or toxic via out-gassing should be avoided for obvious reasons. A lot of people show up here asking about making pipes from wood other than briar. Same story, some woods are toxic and should be not be used. There is a short list of good stuff with briar at the top.
Now will all that being said and you are wanting to laminate some really wild-ass woods together then by all means have at it but consider using a briar liner. It obviously will take some engineering to side step issues of expansion and contraction between the different components. Frankly, I would be VERY surprised if someone out there has not already tried it.
Good luck.
Chas.

[socrates]

Socrates,
I for one will applaud you willingness to do research first. If you study pipe design both here and anywhere on the net in regards to adhesives I think you will find that everyone tries to avoid having any type of glue in direct contact with the burning tobacco or the resulting smoke. We all know the smoke itself is bad enough but adding anything noxious or toxic via out-gassing should be avoided for obvious reasons. A lot of people show up here asking about making pipes from wood other than briar. Same story, some woods are toxic and should be not be used. There is a short list of good stuff with briar at the top.
Now will all that being said and you are wanting to laminate some really wild-ass woods together then by all means have at it but consider using a briar liner. It obviously will take some engineering to side step issues of expansion and contraction between the different components. Frankly, I would be VERY surprised if someone out there has not already tried it.
Good luck.
Chas.

Thanks, I have an idea for the bowl. In the laminating process a block of briar would be incorporated as the actual chamber. Once everything is set the chamber could be cut as in normal proceedure. The angle of the block would be set in accordance with the design shape of the pipe. My mind works a mile a second at times. I don't have a lot of time left and I'm cramming as much as I can into that time. I have not the time to create the beautiful works I've seen. My time is somewhat short. My desire is to make pipes in the shape I find pleasant and of course my laminated monstrocity lol. Thanks for your help. By the way I anticipated some movement between the different woods so beside glue I thought of the addition of hardwood (maple) dowels/pegs. Take care

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[socrates]

Thank you all for your input. Though I am not going to pursue this as a smoker the idea of a laminated pipe intrigues me. I will continue to pursue the knowledge I need to make a conventional pipe while playing with my "lamipipe" (non-smoker).

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