Do the prices of other pipe makers bother you?

[Sasquatch]

Allow me to insert a comment here, it's the reverse side of the "create hype" coin.

My pipes are hyped to hell and back in a couple of places. In other places, I'm unknown. Absolutely NONE of the hype has ever come from me. I tell the truth about materials I buy, I hope people buy and enjoy my pipes.

5 years of that. The brand isn't fancy, it isn't even "Todd Bannard Handmade" it's just some initials. No grading, no nothing. Just pipes. Is every one the best pipe ever? God no. But lots of them are beloved by the people that bought them, and I have many return customers. These are smokers, not cabinet-collectors, and the pipes get beat up good. They like what I offer, they tell their friends.

It's that easy. Is it enough to live off? Eventually it would be, with a little push.

So I'm gonna go the other way here and tell you all something that I was told six years ago: Pipes sell themselves if they are good enough.

If you have pipes sitting around, they are not good enough in some way, or not good enough for the price being asked. People are ALWAYS fucking buying pipes, they can't stop!

So you can have a website, a marketing director, a hot PR girl (still working on that) but what you actually need is product that people think is fucking fabulous. I haven't seen an ad for a Porsche 911... ever. And they sell, and it's because they are ridiculously awesome and have been for 50 years.


The hype? Yeah, shit it will sell a pipe. I've seen used BST pipes on eBay go for more than the guy paid new. Because the vendor takes a "Deep in the heart of the wildnerness, there's this mystical guy carving great pipes, and you can't hardly get one except here's your chance ." A little sizzle with the steak, yes? One pipe. But for all Dunhill's sizzle and mysticism... they made great pipes, and that is what kept the brand going.

My advice? Put the effort into better pipes, and sell them to loudmouths.

[d.huber]

My advice? Put the effort into better pipes, and sell them to loudmouths.

Dammit. I was really relying on the hot PR girl.

[scotties22]

My advice? Put the effort into better pipes, and sell them to loudmouths.

Dammit. I was really relying on the hot PR girl.

I hate to dissapoint both of you, but I already have a day job

[Tyler]

Allow me to insert a comment here, it's the reverse side of the "create hype" coin.

My pipes are hyped to hell and back in a couple of places. In other places, I'm unknown. Absolutely NONE of the hype has ever come from me. I tell the truth about materials I buy, I hope people buy and enjoy my pipes.

5 years of that. The brand isn't fancy, it isn't even "Todd Bannard Handmade" it's just some initials. No grading, no nothing. Just pipes. Is every one the best pipe ever? God no. But lots of them are beloved by the people that bought them, and I have many return customers. These are smokers, not cabinet-collectors, and the pipes get beat up good. They like what I offer, they tell their friends.

It's that easy. Is it enough to live off? Eventually it would be, with a little push.

So I'm gonna go the other way here and tell you all something that I was told six years ago: Pipes sell themselves if they are good enough.

If you have pipes sitting around, they are not good enough in some way, or not good enough for the price being asked. People are ALWAYS fucking buying pipes, they can't stop!

So you can have a website, a marketing director, a hot PR girl (still working on that) but what you actually need is product that people think is fucking fabulous. I haven't seen an ad for a Porsche 911... ever. And they sell, and it's because they are ridiculously awesome and have been for 50 years.


The hype? Yeah, shit it will sell a pipe. I've seen used BST pipes on eBay go for more than the guy paid new. Because the vendor takes a "Deep in the heart of the wildnerness, there's this mystical guy carving great pipes, and you can't hardly get one except here's your chance ." A little sizzle with the steak, yes? One pipe. But for all Dunhill's sizzle and mysticism... they made great pipes, and that is what kept the brand going.

My advice? Put the effort into better pipes, and sell them to loudmouths.

I agree with all you said, but let me add an option to the bold sentence. There is the possibility that the issue is you are underexposed. Granted, that's not the most common issue. Your post seems to be developed as a commentary on how your have found success, and I think you under-appreciate your own charisma.

That said, iI'll re-emphasize that I agree. You have said something I haven't been bold enough to say out right: if you make average pipes and ask average prices, you are in a crowded marketplace (by definition), and you are not offering a compelling product (in and of itself). Obviously, most people are in the fat part of the bell curve--most of us are average. From a pure pipe perspective, if you want to sell a lot of pipes easily, you need to offer exceptional value. You can do that by moving to either edge of the curve. Low prices on one side and amazing pipes on the other.

Most of us can't move though. Necessarily the bell moves with us. We can't afford to cut prices too far, and we are all trying hard to make the best pipes we can. So what to do??

You add value by selling the YOU in your pipes. Sas does this perfectly on PipeSmokersForum. He's a helpful, funny, snugly monster from the North Pole. He educates smokers, collectors, and new makers, and does so generously and regularly. You ain't nobody if you don't own a BST on that forum. And why not? He's makes a solid, no-nonsense pipe that only HE, the one-and-only Sas, can make. He use briar, sweat, and tears to make a smoking instrument that matches all the help he graciously shares. They match his personality, his advice, and his love for pipes. What does it cost to experience this? Taking a sack lunch to work for a couple months instead of going to Burger King. Heck, yeah. Who wouldn't take that? People line up.

Engage in the community, be helpful and kind, make as nice a pipe as you can, be fair with your prices, and stick around. You'll sell all you can make.


There's lots more to say, but I'm tired of typing. Maybe we can talk about "fair pricing" next.

P.S. This also works in the Social Media (Instagram, Twitter, Facebook) world, as Sam suggests. The slight tweak there, since you engage differently, is to be entertaining, and human. Let people get to know you. It's more of a "show", but it can been done with humility, and be equally effective.

[Sasquatch]

You've caught me with my pants down Tyler, and I don't know which of us is the lucky one because of it.

Yes, I've put in hours, yes there's a persona behind the brand. And yes, when I take out a pipe and just put it on a table, hardly anybody looks twice at it because.... it's just another pipe, and there's a hundred fucking million of them to choose from if just the pipe is your criteria.

My post was developed as a "here's what I did" or a "here's one way" sort of thing. Cryder did another - he just worked so goddam hard on his first few pipes and was so driven to understand and make nice pipes that he just.... up and did it. Force of will.

Lots of ways to skin the cat. I guess if I have general point, it's that your photos, your website, your brand name, none of that matter near as much as making a half decent pipe. Do that and the other stuff will come into line.

Meanwhile, here's a quick Obama joke because I'm Canadian and I think this is super funnny:

Obama is told that two Brazilian health care workers have contracted ebola.
"That's awful," he says, "how many is a Brazillion?"

[grrrrr609]

Ive read this entire thread. Very intersting. I only read on this forum. I dont have anything to add on 99.9% of the posts. Im not a pipe maker. Im a pipe hobbyist. I love my pipes. I love restoring pipes. I recently made my first pipe. Not a kit but a molded stem. Its not great. It has flaws. But it smokes great. And its Grrr#1 so I love it. Grrr#2 has been started. I posted pics of Grrr#1 on a couple of forums, one forum, my home forum so to speak, really got great feedback. Alot of people want one. So of course a thread on pricing pipes grabbed my interest.

Now to my point of why im posting here.

First, I think some of you guys are missing a huge market for your pipes. The cigar forums. All the cigar forums I belong to have subforums for us pipers. Where we post our pipes. Our tobacco. Our wishlists and restoration projects.

My opinion, but alot of cigar guys are tired of the cigar prices. Tired of chasing the hard to find cigars or limited release cigars. Although we still enjoy our cigars, we have turned to pipes and pipe tobacco. On one particular forum, we have one pipe maker active there. We commissioned him made our anniversary pipe. I personally have pushed more people down the slippery slope of pipes than I can count. And even some down the slope of restoring pipes.

Secondly. We get excited over a new pipe. We post our look at me pics, and share our new addition. One thing that occasiinally happens is a pipe that is commisioned takes forever to get. We all see that. I think a year plus is too long to wait for a commissioned pipe. That actually happened. Alot of us that witnessed that wont order form this pipe maker because of this.

Thirdly, maybe some of you here can explain to me if and or why not, its possible. I know there are alot of custom pipe makers I want to own pipes from. I know alot of guys want pipes from custom pipe makers. But we cant afford the price tags. Is it possible to have pipes that are the same quality but maybe not as fancy, or a lower grade or......know what I mean? Something that I can say I have a pipe made by Mr. So-and-so that wont break my budget? Im not sure im saying this correctly. Im not the best at putting my thoughts to words.

Just so you know, alot of your names are out there. On the cigar forums I mean. Ive personally dropped you name Mr. Huber and Squatch your name comes up also. Whenever someone asks about custom pipe makers.

Keep doing what you guys do. We love the pipe porn. Your work is appreciated. And all of you are welcome to come over to the cigar forums and show us your stuff.

Thanx for listening er I mean reading.

[taharris]

This is a great thread, but I think there is one strategy that has not really been addressed.

Know who your customer is (or who you want your customer to be) and make pipes for him/her.

I was having a discussion about pricing with Tim West one day and I was commenting that his prices seem low compared to his reputation and he told me "I make pipes for the working man".

That is the customer base that he has chosen so he tailors his pipes and prices to that market.

Todd

[Sasquatch]

Joe Sixpack buys more pipes than Carl Collector-grade.

[Sasquatch]

Grr, to answer your question about "simpler" pipes, some makers do have either a second line or will make some slightly lower priced pieces. But where are you asking that maker to cut a corner? Design? Engineering, Decoration, finish? He doesn't WANT to sell that pipe, the cruddy sandblast, the Not-so-shiny stem at all. It's full out good enough... or it's not. That's part of the trip for most of us. I throw out pipes some companies would sell. I could finish them, charge half price, and ... have made 1/2 my ordinary pipe-making salary by wasting time on an inferior piece. It doesn't make sense, usually.

[d.huber]

Grr, to answer your question about "simpler" pipes, some makers do have either a second line or will make some slightly lower priced pieces. But where are you asking that maker to cut a corner? Design? Engineering, Decoration, finish? He doesn't WANT to sell that pipe, the cruddy sandblast, the Not-so-shiny stem at all. It's full out good enough... or it's not. That's part of the trip for most of us. I throw out pipes some companies would sell. I could finish them, charge half price, and ... have made 1/2 my ordinary pipe-making salary by wasting time on an inferior piece. It doesn't make sense, usually.

Yup.

[sandahlpipe]

Interestingly enough, I was all curious about how social media marketing works and forums and all yesterday. Well one of my customers shared an album of his favorite pipe (which happens to be one of mine) on a Facebook group without me even noticing. It generated a lot of buzz by people talking about it and asking questions. Then a couple of people even went through my albums on Facebook and started liking and asking even more questions. One guy then sent me a PM and asked for a price and without hesitation commissioned a pipe. I'd never heard of the guy before and I'm not even that active on Facebook.

I think the bottom line is what Sas and Tyler have been saying. You need to build up a reputation and make pipes that people are proud to show off months or years from now. Then you need someone who can give you exposure. Tooting your own horn on social media can come across as arrogant, but when other people sing your praises, it really helps.

[Joe Hinkle Pipes]

This is a saying in business, and it is at least partially true. Word of mouth is the best advertising. As Jeremiah was saying, I can tell when someone has mentioned my pipes specifically on twitter, facebook, instagram or whatever social media they use. I can tell because my website stats will jump incredibly for a brief period, or I will gain 8 followers in 10 minutes. When that happens, that is someone telling a few hunfred of their friends about your work. So as tyler was saying, politely answer EVERY question or comment, comment and like other similar photos. It all counts. I have seen pipemakers that get 10 comments on a photo and never respond. I don't understand that. One reseller I follow responds to every comment. Probably 100 or more in a day. And he has thousands of engaged followers becauae of this.