On "seeing" aesthetics

[kkendall]

... Others may learn by solitary examination. Still others learn by reading about theory and esoteric subjects. That doesn't mean that, if someone can't see it now, they won't ever.

Oh really???

Ever go to the driving range and see guys banging at the balls - who have never had a day of instruction? It shows!

All they are doing is perfecting an imperfect swing. Without someone there seeing what you are doing, explaining what you are doing wrong... NO amount of practice will improve the swing...EVER! No amount of reading on the subject of perfecting your swing is going to help. The best he can hope to accomplish is to compensate for the ill-formed swing and to put the ball somewhere in the fairway... sometimes... maybe.

Same with us fledgling dust makers! Without some form of contact / feedback / interactions with experienced carvers, there isn't a lot of hope that the rookie will ever be anything more than a rookie. We can't count on the guy that buys a pipe cuz his swing sucks, too! We need to rely on the teaching pro to point out where we can do better.

[KurtHuhn]

Man, I really thought this thread had died.

Since I don't play golf, and never will, I have to take your word for the analogy. As to the rest, I agree. I've never said that personalized instruction isn't beneficial. If that came through in my posts, I apologize as that certainly would not be a message I would ever advocate. The above quote was really in response to HOW a person learns, whether it be with an instructor/teacher/mentor/whatever or without, and how different people can't be taught in a blanket method that covers the overwhelming average.

I could come up with a handful of illustrative analogies, all in support of my point of view, but I'm stopping here. At this point, it feels more like self flagellation than an exchange of ideas, so I'm going to let the rest of you folks have the floor.

[Frank]

Ever go to the driving range and see guys banging at the balls - who have never had a day of instruction? It shows!

I understand the point you're trying to make and agree with most of what you said above. However, I think you're muddying the waters by comparing oranges to apples (or even golf balls, for that matter) with this golfing analogy.

I think you're misunderstanding what Kurt is saying. In fact, I think your mind works in a similar fashion to Kurt's and mine. We tend see things from a technical point of view and translate that into an artistic idea. Someone like Todd can view the same idea from an artistic point and incorporate the technical view/details.

I don't think I've fully managed to translate my ideas to words here, but perhaps someone else can see what I'm actually trying to say - perhaps state it better.

[KurtHuhn]

I think you're misunderstanding what Kurt is saying. In fact, I think your mind works in a similar fashion to Kurt's and mine. We tend see things from a technical point of view and translate that into an artistic idea. Someone like Todd can view the same idea from an artistic point and incorporate the technical view/details.

Actually, that's bang-on. Thanks, Frank - I owe you a bottle of olive oil.

[kkendall]

Actually the whole point is in that last paragraph....

[Frank]

Actually the whole point is in that last paragraph....

And that is what this forum has to be for the majority of us - a long distance, online apprenticeship, if you will.

Those of you who truly want to become professional pipemakers will make the effort to physically seek out/visit established professional pipemakers for hands-on advice and guidance. Few, if any, professional pipemakers can afford to take on a full time apprentice, but individuals like Todd have indicated their willingness to help aspiring pipemakers in order to stimulate what could well be a dying profession.

Ask a professional pipemaker if that's OK with him. At best he'll say, "Sure, come on over, I'll give you some pointers", at worst he'll likely say, "Sorry, I just don't have the time". It's up to you to make the effort.

[kbadkar]

If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.

There are as many paths to artistic enlightenment as there are enlightened artists.

But it is fascinating to deconstruct processes and push one another's understanding. The whole discussion has become somewhat of a Zen koan and an interesting play between left and right brain perspectives- yingity, yangity... like a tennis match. I'm enjoying the recent competitive spirit and the passion.