Chainsaw planing; anyone else still use this method?

[ToddJohnson]

Beyond that, I don't think insulting someone's moderating abilities is really necessary.

Sorry Grammy, I'll go sit with Rad in the timeout corner, now. In the last seven years or so of posting here I can't think of a single occasion where a "moderator"--especially a secret moderator--decided of their own volition to remove a post. Not only that, but the objection was that the post was "childish?" Hell yeah it was childish, and so is half of all the banter that goes on here. For those of us who already know what we're doing, this is a place we come to joke, screw around, and offer advice to those who don't. Recently, however, we've somehow become "role models" who have an obligation to comment on every pointless, ignorant, or downright hopeless thread we see. And now we can't joke around unless it suits the taste of some clown crouching behind a curtain? To paraphrase Rad, that's nonsense! And if, as you say, "childish behavior is not permitted," I think you're gonna have to hang up your "leather pants and olive oil," monsieur Ostrogoth. And you may think it cute to flick your wrist and dismiss Rad from your presence, but he's one of the most talented and most helpful makers here, not some no-talent hack who doles out advice at every opportunity. A lot of people can't tell the difference, but for those of us who can, not having Rad here is a net loss. So congratulations, you've now made it harder for people to come here and get decent advice on how to make pretty pipes.

TJ

[Sasquatch]

"no-talent hack who doles out advice at every opportunity"?

I didn't realize I'd been promoted.

[KurtHuhn]

Sorry Grammy, I'll go sit with Rad in the timeout corner, now. In the last seven years or so of posting here I can't think of a single occasion where a "moderator"--especially a secret moderator--decided of their own volition to remove a post. Not only that, but the objection was that the post was "childish?" Hell yeah it was childish, and so is half of all the banter that goes on here. For those of us who already know what we're doing, this is a place we come to joke, screw around, and offer advice to those who don't. Recently, however, we've somehow become "role models" who have an obligation to comment on every pointless, ignorant, or downright hopeless thread we see. And now we can't joke around unless it suits the taste of some clown crouching behind a curtain? To paraphrase Rad, that's nonsense! And if, as you say, "childish behavior is not permitted," I think you're gonna have to hang up your "leather pants and olive oil," monsieur Ostrogoth. And you may think it cute to flick your wrist and dismiss Rad from your presence, but he's one of the most talented and most helpful makers here, not some no-talent hack who doles out advice at every opportunity. A lot of people can't tell the difference, but for those of us who can, not having Rad here is a net loss. So congratulations, you've now made it harder for people to come here and get decent advice on how to make pretty pipes.

Todd,

You're being insulting. I only ask that folks not have fun at the expense of others. Nobody is asking you to comment on anything, and please, don't feel as if you have to.

With regard to dismissing Rad, that is not my intent. Please re-read my message. That is not what I implied or meant. I have the utmost respect for Rad and his abilities, as well as his willingness to share his knowledge.

[NathanA]

I didn't really tune in to this topic because it had nothing to do with me but now I am concerned.

RAD, PLEASE COME BACK!!!

You and your pipes are the majority of the reason I wanted to start making pipes. If that little picture of some nice ring grain doesn't pop up now and then, I just don't know what I'll do.

[RadDavis]

Mike, don't presume to fucking lecture me on basic machining. I know what a fucking boring bar is, and moreover I know how to fucking use one. Better than that, I know when the fuck to opt for a goddamned drill bit instead.

Jesus Titty Fucking Christ!

Pardon my lack of eloquence, Mike, but you are a goddamned fucking idiot. When you are told that it is easier and better to drill a fucking hole with a fucking drill bit than a metal lathe and a fucking boring bar, it's not peddling some kind of fucking "rightness agenda". It's some poor bastard trying to help your dumb ass do something better, faster, with less aggravation, and a hell of a lot more repeatability than your complete and utter waste of time methods.

Kurt,

When did the institution of this new policy of “moderators” deleting posts that they deem “childish”, “offensive”, etc. take place? Who are these anonymous “moderators” (that no one knew about, by the way) who were “not amused” by Todd’s initial post and my and your follow ups? The above quote by you in the “Ugly Ebonite” thread is probably one of the nastiest I’ve ever read here in the forums, yet it remains, as it should.

Like Todd, I don’t remember any post ever being deleted by a moderator for as long as I’ve been participating on these forums. This is a slippery slope and it’s quite chilling to think that any posts can be deleted at the discretion of someone who has no dog in the hunt, but thinks it his duty to spare someone else from insult or childishness.

We’re all adults here, and adults are allowed to be childish. The target of a humorous “shot” should take it as such or grow a thicker skin. We’re not in kindergarten, and the pros that offer advice here are not interested in maintaining anyone’s self esteem. They are here to help new pipe makers become better at what they do. Sometimes that takes the form of a humorous “insult”. It is not mean spirited. Call it comic relief if you want. All of us have been targets at one time or another. It can get ugly, but such is life.

Any offense taken or given should be dealt with by the offender and the offendee and not by some anonymous third party.

I truly enjoy participating in the forums and offering help to people who ask for it, but if that participation comes at the price of having to watch what I say, lest a “moderator” find me offensive and delete my post, then count me out.

Rad

[KurtHuhn]

Rad,

Very well put, thank you.

However, the difference is the intent. I've said it before, and I will say it again, nobody is allowed to have fun at the expense of others. Golden Rule and all. Do unto others as you would have done. Some folks really don't like being poked, jabbed, or the butt of jokes. Taking pot-shots at folks is not okay.

The fact is, there have been several instances of moderation over the years, even as far back as when Tyler was running the forum. I recall more than one occasion where a post was deleted or edited for content. The occasional F-bomb is fine, you should hear me in simple conversation even with my wife. Fact is, you should hear my wife, the woman has a truckers mouth. You should hear her thoughts on this entire episode.

That said, vulgarity such as Bruce's post this morning will not be tolerated. I took that one down because it was simply nasty - and not nasty in the use of the F-bomb, but just downright raunchy.

Am I guilty of losing my cool in the above quoted post? You betcha! And I apologized afterward, both publicly and to Mike privately. Frankly I was rather disappointed in that post, but figured I'd leave it up instead of deleting it - as any member here has the ability to go back and delete any of their past posts. That's a no-win situation right there. If I delete it, I get accused of impropriety. If I leave it, I'll be accused of something else. Best to leave it and deal with the consequences, I figure. One thing is clear there though, I certainly wasn't poking fun at anyone, and my vitriol was laser focused and my intent couldn't have been clearer.

It's interesting though, the point of contention seems to be that folks are offended that other folks are taking offense to certain posts. You, Todd, and Bruce seem to be offended that your not allowed to say what you want, when you want, at the expense of whoever. And if people don't like it, it's just tough. At least that how it seems.

We could go on and on, around and around, and up and down over this subject until we're all nauseated by the mere thought of checking the next posts on the forum for fear of what the next installment in this little soap opera will be. It could become quite ridiculous, if it isn't already.

Please, if you have further questions on moderator policy, send me a private message. I think we've all had ample opportunity to try to explain our stand publicly, and nothing can be gained by further subjecting the rest of the forum to this disagreement.

[ToddJohnson]

Long story short, there was nothing mean spirited about my exchange with Rad--it was just downright goofy--and nobody was the "target" of said banter. The "point" I was making--if there really was a point other than humor--is that discussions about how to make flat boards from a tree trunk using a chainsaw is about as relevant to the subject of pipemaking as your favorite sourdough bread recipe, or your great uncle's prostate health. The last time someone jumped in and began firing off a series of ignorant posts (and I don't mean stupid, I just mean ignorant), I very politely suggested they read up on pipemaking basics first, and I was reprimanded by you, Kurt, for being "dismissive." This time, we're talking about making oak pipes with chainsaws, and if you have a sense of humor that is funny! Rad and I thought so and were engaging in some witty if childish banter that was completely harmless. Then, someone who a) has no sense of humor, and b) doesn't have the balls to act openly, just comes along and deletes everything. That, as I've said, is nonsense!

I'm not interested in having some sort of power struggle with you, Kurt. We take different approaches to most things, and I think we should just let our work illuminate our respective methodologies. If you want to take time to answer every post and hold the hand of every guy who shows up with a Dremel and a pipe-kit, so be it. I don't have any problem with that. What I do have a problem with is your perception that you somehow own the moral high ground, and from your elevated position you can send down edicts and dole out reprimands. If you found a job teaching Kindergarten shop class, that would be fine, but it just doesn't seem appropriate here.

The other problem I have is with these anonymous moderators you've apparently deputized. To me that demonstrates a lack of integrity. One participates here with the expectation of relative privacy and autonomy. Having secret moderators who can access one's posts--and who knows what else--is simply out of bounds. And by way of curiosity, which sections of the Forum do these secret moderators have access to, Kurt? That would be an interesting question to have answered.

TJ

[KurtHuhn]

The other problem I have is with these anonymous moderators you've apparently deputized. To me that demonstrates a lack of integrity. One participates here with the expectation of relative privacy and autonomy. Having secret moderators who can access one's posts--and who knows what else--is simply out of bounds. And by way of curiosity, which sections of the Forum do these secret moderators have access to, Kurt? That would be an interesting question to have answered.

The moderators are active on the public portion of the forum only, since that's the area where the PUBLIC has access to. They operate under anonymity for precisely the reason this thread has gone on so long - they want to avoid butting heads with those that get modded. I think that's reasonable. You are welcome to disagree. If you feel threatened by that, I am sorry.

Beyond that, if you have further input on this, please direct it to my email or private message box.

[RadDavis]

It's interesting though, the point of contention seems to be that folks are offended that other folks are taking offense to certain posts. You, Todd, and Bruce seem to be offended that your not allowed to say what you want, when you want, at the expense of whoever. And if people don't like it, it's just tough. At least that how it seems.

It may seem that way, but that’s not necessarily how it is. If I offend someone on the forum and they say so, I’ll either apologize or defend what I said. The offender and the offended should work it out or agree to disagree.

The problem I have is with some anonymous third party playing Daddy and deleting my post out of hand because he found it childish. I have a problem with anyone doing anything for my or anyone else’s “own good”.

They operate under anonymity for precisely the reason this thread has gone on so long - they want to avoid butting heads with those that get modded. I think that's reasonable.

That’s not reasonable at all. On SF the moderator at least has the courage to PM you himself and tell you why they’ve deleted your post. That’s reasonable, and you know about it going in when you join SF. You're giving someone autonomy with no responsibility.

Rad

[KurtHuhn]

This ends here. I'm sorry if you don't like it.

The moderator in question has asked to have their abilities removed. They feel very badly about the extent that their action from Friday night has disrupted the forum.

Again, further discussion should be directed to me privately. Further posts in this thread on this subject will be deleted by me. Clear?

[ArtGuy]

If every board I was on deleted childish posts, I would never get a word in at all.